Epic fail - Cervelo frame made in China

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Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Talking about Walmart...
Why spend $7000 for a bike when you can buy one at Walmart for under $200 ?
21.gif


For the record: I own some WMT stock.



Well, why would anyone drive an ZR1 Vette when you can have my car for $200...? That's about the difference between the bikes.
Personally I think the sweet spot for most bikes is $1-2k for anyone less than a semi-pro rider, but for $7k you can own the ZR1 of bikes.
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Many/most of the carbon bikes, even high end ones, are made in China.


yes.

carbon lay up is very labor intensive and the Chinese are very good at it.
and you DON'T get what you pay for; all carbon frames are is lighter, that's it.
they are more expensive, more fragile, and hardly repairable.
http://www.bustedcarbon.com/
for that kind of money, you can have a lightweight steel or titanium bike hand built for you, and probably meet and talk with the guy building it for you!
some examples:
http://www.groovycycleworks.com/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.bicycleframes.com/

and hundreds of other small domestic frame shops...

just say NO to carbon!
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Talking about Walmart...
Why spend $7000 for a bike when you can buy one at Walmart for under $200 ?
21.gif


For the record: I own some WMT stock.




What a ridiculous comment! To say that WMT garbage is the same as a purpose-built triathalon/road bike, you have to be joking.

Or perhaps your icon should instead be
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JHZR2,

I'm just being silly and snarky.

But seriously, before you make a purchase you NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK and do some research before you spend your hard earned money.

Its like the people the buy a VW for their 'advanced German craftsmanship' only to find out their car was made in Mexico. Then they are very upset that some guys named Pedro, Carlos, Hector and Ramon assembled their car south of the Texas border.
 
Originally Posted By: jcwit
7 Grand for a bike?

Now I know why I believe in gas engines.

There is no way in xxxx I'd even be inclined to spend that kind of bucks on a bike, never gonna happen.


^^^Same could be said (and I DO!!) for the wealthy duffers who would pay that (or MORE) for a set of trick clubs.
wink.gif

(Or even the compulsive status/wealth flashers who buy Maybachs/EB 110s/etc. instead of less costly, but MUCH higher performing rides.)
 
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Many/most of the carbon bikes, even high end ones, are made in China.


yes.

carbon lay up is very labor intensive and the Chinese are very good at it.
and you DON'T get what you pay for; all carbon frames are is lighter, that's it.
they are more expensive, more fragile, and hardly repairable.
http://www.bustedcarbon.com/
for that kind of money, you can have a lightweight steel or titanium bike hand built for you, and probably meet and talk with the guy building it for you!
some examples:
http://www.groovycycleworks.com/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.bicycleframes.com/

and hundreds of other small domestic frame shops...

just say NO to carbon!


^^^THIS!

But, that being said, at some point I do want to own a carbon/kevlar framed road (AND track) bike(s).

I believe that at one time (in the beginning??) most of the carbon lay-ups were being done in Mexico, and maybe Canada, and then Taiwan, but I guess they ALL became too costly/unprofitable for the mostly small boutique/high-end bike companies?
21.gif


Aren't the top-of-the-line (Trek) Madones still made in Wisconsin??

Are ANY at all 'aero profile' frames (whether TT/Tri, or dropped bar road) still made outside of China???
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Many/most of the carbon bikes, even high end ones, are made in China.


yes.

carbon lay up is very labor intensive and the Chinese are very good at it.
and you DON'T get what you pay for; all carbon frames are is lighter, that's it.
they are more expensive, more fragile, and hardly repairable.
http://www.bustedcarbon.com/
for that kind of money, you can have a lightweight steel or titanium bike hand built for you, and probably meet and talk with the guy building it for you!
some examples:
http://www.groovycycleworks.com/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.bicycleframes.com/

and hundreds of other small domestic frame shops...

just say NO to carbon!


^^^THIS!

But, that being said, at some point I do want to own a carbon/kevlar framed road (AND track) bike(s).

I believe that at one time (in the beginning??) most of the carbon lay-ups were being done in Mexico, and maybe Canada, and then Taiwan, but I guess they ALL became too costly/unprofitable for the mostly small boutique/high-end bike companies?
21.gif


Aren't the top-of-the-line (Trek) Madones still made in Wisconsin??

Are ANY at all 'aero profile' frames (whether TT/Tri, or dropped bar road) still made outside of China???


I'm assuming that sucking sound we are hearing is yet another North American industrial vacuum.
frown.gif
 
When the time for me to upgrade from my Al LeMond(really a Giant) to a more serious road bike, this is on the short list:
http://www.sevencycles.com/road/axiom-sl.php

If I'm going to spend a few thousand on my bike, I want it to be made with love and to my spec. If I want something made in China, I'll get a Surly thank you.
 
Originally Posted By: nthach
If I want something made in China, I'll get a Surly thank you.


Surly is made in Taiwan. they put together an excellent tig welded frame. I like my Pacer alot.
 
Originally Posted By: nthach
When the time for me to upgrade from my Al LeMond(really a Giant) to a more serious road bike, this is on the short list:
http://www.sevencycles.com/road/axiom-sl.php

If I'm going to spend a few thousand on my bike, I want it to be made with love and to my spec.


Yes, they sort of picked up the custom built to the rider's specs/size/configuration titanium frameset ball when Merlin, and their 'buyouters', Litespeed dropped it!! (Along with Spectrum, Lynsky, Moots, etc.)

NICE workmanship on those frames.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Many/most of the carbon bikes, even high end ones, are made in China.



I should have noted, I'm not happy about this, just pointing out a fact.

If I were going to spend that kind of money on a bike, I'd be getting something built by one of the smaller frame makers in the US.

But, there's no way in heck I'd ever spend $7k on a bike.

We currently have two Bikes Direct bikes. My GF's bike was made in Taiwan, mine was made in China. The Taiwanese bike was definitely better assembled than the Chinese bike. The Taiwanese bike was ready to go out of the box, minus the normal assembly and tuning. The Chinese bike had very wobbly wheels and misrouted cables.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So you're happy to pay premium, top dollar prices for products made in china as long as the quality seems acceptable?



No. If something is made in China, the price needs to reflect that. In this case it sounds like it wasn't.
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
So you're happy to pay premium, top dollar prices for products made in china as long as the quality seems acceptable?



No. If something is made in China, the price needs to reflect that. In this case it sounds like it wasn't.


This is a ridiculous statement. Just because it's made in China it has to be cheap? The price reflects the R&D costs to design the product, the testing that goes into it, the QC at the factory and yes, the manufacturing costs--which by the way are much higher than people realize.

Without knowing the particulars, I can guesstimate that Cervelo's landed cost from their Chinese manufacturer is in the neighborhood of $1,000 for an S3 frame. In other words, it's not cheap (that 7K bike has a lot of other expensive parts on it). While Chinese labor is generally very inexpensive, high-end carbon bicycle labor is actually fairly expensive (in relative terms).

Like many, I wish that there was domestic or "first world" production of carbon bikes, but right now besides Trek (and one model of the Madone),Cyfac is the only company I know of making "production" bikes outside of China or Taiwan. So, I think it's a bit unfair to single out Cervelo in this instance.
 
According to my local shop (a Seven dealer), the custom built to your size/specs Seven carbon frames are layed-up here in the 'states.

Don't know if this is true/accurate, but this is what they said.
21.gif


Of course, these will make the Cervelos seem like bargain basement deals, price-wise!!
crazy2.gif
 
I called Seven Cycles today, and they confirmed that all three of their custom carbon fiber models (2 'tri'/TT frames, 1 'aero' road frame) ARE layed-up right there in Sommerville/Watertown, Mass.!!
34.gif
cool.gif
thumbsup2.gif


Yes, the downside is the price, ~$4K for the road frame, and ~$5K for the 'contre la montre'/tri frames.
frown.gif


IF I had the coin (or won the Power Ball or such), THIS is what I would get!!
smile.gif


Is ANY of the SRAM Red gruppo made here at all??
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I called Seven Cycles today, and they confirmed that all three of their custom carbon fiber models (2 'tri'/TT frames, 1 'aero' road frame) ARE layed-up right there in Sommerville/Watertown, Mass.!!
34.gif
cool.gif
thumbsup2.gif


Yes, the downside is the price, ~$4K for the road frame, and ~$5K for the 'contre la montre'/tri frames.
frown.gif


IF I had the coin (or won the Power Ball or such), THIS is what I would get!!
smile.gif


Is ANY of the SRAM Red gruppo made here at all??


That is wonderful to hear! I'll pass that news on to dad, as he's looking at picking up another carbon.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I called Seven Cycles today, and they confirmed that all three of their custom carbon fiber models (2 'tri'/TT frames, 1 'aero' road frame) ARE layed-up right there in Sommerville/Watertown, Mass.!!
34.gif
cool.gif
thumbsup2.gif


Yes, the downside is the price, ~$4K for the road frame, and ~$5K for the 'contre la montre'/tri frames.
frown.gif


IF I had the coin (or won the Power Ball or such), THIS is what I would get!!
smile.gif


Is ANY of the SRAM Red gruppo made here at all??


That is wonderful to hear! I'll pass that news on to dad, as he's looking at picking up another carbon.


Just remember that those prices I stated above are for the frames ONLY, NO; wheels, pedals, seat, 'cockpit', or gruppos!!
crazy2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I called Seven Cycles today, and they confirmed that all three of their custom carbon fiber models (2 'tri'/TT frames, 1 'aero' road frame) ARE layed-up right there in Sommerville/Watertown, Mass.!!
34.gif
cool.gif
thumbsup2.gif


Yes, the downside is the price, ~$4K for the road frame, and ~$5K for the 'contre la montre'/tri frames.
frown.gif


IF I had the coin (or won the Power Ball or such), THIS is what I would get!!
smile.gif


Is ANY of the SRAM Red gruppo made here at all??


That is wonderful to hear! I'll pass that news on to dad, as he's looking at picking up another carbon.


Just remember that those prices I stated above are for the frames ONLY, NO; wheels, pedals, seat, 'cockpit', or gruppos!!
crazy2.gif



Yup, I got that
smile.gif
The Cervelo frame is $4,500 by itself.
 
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