Engine Revs per Mile vs. Wear

[Ken4]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mal:
Or is the wear so minimal under normal operation that maintenance, number of cold starts, short trips, etc. have more to do with wear?

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YES. This is more or less my conclusion too. Wear has less to do with oil brand & viscosity. But more to do with: Low silicon + mostly highway miles + short oil change interval (
I use to commute 40km to work, and I would redline at least 10 times a day on the highway, and easily raked up 5000km in 2months, the UOA looked great. Nowadays, my short trip pampered driving (less than 2km) takes my about 6months to complete 5000km, the UOAs look horrors.

 

[S2000driver]

quote:

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Originally posted by Baveux:
Who needs to shift constantly, to stay in the upper power band just to be able to move with the traffic.

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I do!

Actually the way I drive my S2000, I keep it in a lower gear than I actually need and I just moderate the throttle... with excellent flexibility from 2000 RPM to 9000 RPM, who needs to shift? Plus it's FUN!

And I still get 30 MPG at the end of the day.

If you want a quiet plush ride or need to pull a load, sure thing cubes are what you want.

I've had a couple luxury cars with V6's. The acceleration is great, the ride is smooth, but it's BORING.

I love to drive and I want to feel alive. Bounce me around and make my head spin, give me more!

A 4-cylinder cannot give you the same acceleration through the first part of 1st gear that a bigger engine will. This is where acceleration is "felt" the most, after that acceleration forces diminish due to velocity [since a~HP/(v*m)] and road horsepower increasing.

I don't care to race other people. Pure straight line horsepower without handling wears off very quickly. Maybe I could get a Corvette convertible for just a little bit more money (and I could afford it), but I have never been let down by Honda quality and I don't find myself needing the acceleration off the line.

Bottom line- I would rather drive my car like a Ferrari than like a pickup truck. I don't mind a little work, the payoff is in smiles-per-hour.

 

[therion]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris B.:
I like engines that make the power on their own with out the need for a turbo or SC. That is why I like the LS1 because it comes stock with 310-350hp NA. So you can get 4 bangers that make that with a turbo and other mods but then you can get a small or big block that is all engine and makes 3 times the power that turboed 4 cyl. could make.

I'll always take a low reving torque monster over a 8,000 rpm 4 banger anyday!

BTW I smoked a Eagle Talon last night which I think had a V6 in it.

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Stock eagl talons are slow. My friend that works at GRD has a turboed eagle talon with a few goodies. 365HP, AWD, the thing is light as a feather and he still has the STOCK block no internal changes were made. Hes got a bumper stick on the back "I eat V8's for lunch" or something. He tells me all these kill stories and says he runs a 11 sec quarter mile pass... not bad for a 4 banger!!!

So what if your modified LS2 or Camaro can make 450hps when the car is heavy and while your trying to get traction off the line the AWD Talon will smoke you.

Oh and he said the motor is bulletproof reliable too.

 

[therion]

quote:

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Originally posted by S2000driver:

quote:

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Originally posted by Baveux:
Who needs to shift constantly, to stay in the upper power band just to be able to move with the traffic.

---

I do!

Actually the way I drive my S2000, I keep it in a lower gear than I actually need and I just moderate the throttle... with excellent flexibility from 2000 RPM to 9000 RPM, who needs to shift? Plus it's FUN!

And I still get 30 MPG at the end of the day.

If you want a quiet plush ride or need to pull a load, sure thing cubes are what you want.

I've had a couple luxury cars with V6's. The acceleration is great, the ride is smooth, but it's BORING.

I love to drive and I want to feel alive. Bounce me around and make my head spin, give me more!

A 4-cylinder cannot give you the same acceleration through the first part of 1st gear that a bigger engine will. This is where acceleration is "felt" the most, after that acceleration forces diminish due to velocity [since a~HP/(v*m)] and road horsepower increasing.

I don't care to race other people. Pure straight line horsepower without handling wears off very quickly. Maybe I could get a Corvette convertible for just a little bit more money (and I could afford it), but I have never been let down by Honda quality and I don't find myself needing the acceleration off the line.

Bottom line- I would rather drive my car like a Ferrari than like a pickup truck. I don't mind a little work, the payoff is in smiles-per-hour.

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Same here. We have a ford taurus and when you floor it it makes alotta noise (racket) and "sounds" like its going fast. Guess what i raced an old BMW 325i and he beat me by 5 car lengths i was pathetic. His was auto too.

My Audi A4 with a 1.8L engine (stock K03 turbo) makes 215HP and 230 lb/ft of torque at just 3,000 rpms + AWD = alotta fun!. This car on the highway doesnt feel fast you just see the speedometer go up and you dont get the racket and noise as with the taurus. I raced my friends Mustang GT with headers the other day and i was on his rear bumper the whole time from 25mph-86mph (it was wet so i had to give him a chance!

). I have never owned a 4 cyl with this much push!, it runs like a straight-6 rather than a I4.

Anyway my buddies have replaced the stock restrictive turbo with a Garret unit used on performance cars and 300whp is easily and reliably obtained. BTW, no internal engine mods needed the 1.8t motor is volkswagens toughest engine and sports a cast iron block, 5 valves per cylinder, and forged steel crankshaft with five main bearings (even Volkswagen’s 2.8 liter V6 fitted in the Passat only has four). VAGSport reports users running 1.8T engines over 400 crank horsepower with totally stock blocks and engine internals.

[ February 10, 2004, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: therion ]

 

[Baveux]

S2000, I'm probably too old for the "bounce and spin around"

Plush ride and instant reaction (Torquie)from the engine is what I prefer.

Whats that now pressing a clutch, moving a stick every minutes to be able to go to the grocery

To each is own I guess, glad to see that you took my comment with a grain of salt

 

[Baveux]

holy sh.t !! is this what he his saying ???

The sweet sounds of a big engine, you see, the pedal to the floor and kaboom, your gone , no need to wait for the fan to come or for the engine to be kept in a narrow power band.

zoom zoom zoom ....my a$$

 

[Chris B.]

quote:

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Originally posted by therion:

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris B.:
I like engines that make the power on their own with out the need for a turbo or SC. That is why I like the LS1 because it comes stock with 310-350hp NA. So you can get 4 bangers that make that with a turbo and other mods but then you can get a small or big block that is all engine and makes 3 times the power that turboed 4 cyl. could make.

I'll always take a low reving torque monster over a 8,000 rpm 4 banger anyday!

BTW I smoked a Eagle Talon last night which I think had a V6 in it.

---

Stock eagl talons are slow. My friend that works at GRD has a turboed eagle talon with a few goodies. 365HP, AWD, the thing is light as a feather and he still has the STOCK block no internal changes were made. Hes got a bumper stick on the back "I eat V8's for lunch" or something. He tells me all these kill stories and says he runs a 11 sec quarter mile pass... not bad for a 4 banger!!!

So what if your modified LS2 or Camaro can make 450hps when the car is heavy and while your trying to get traction off the line the AWD Talon will smoke you.

Oh and he said the motor is bulletproof reliable too.

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365 hp...how much did he have to spend to get that, thousands? I can put down more then that with a few free mods. Also the Fbody is not a heavy car and if you know how to drive you wont have a problem getting traction off the line. I have seen 800hp Camaros launch off the line with no wheel spin.
And about reliablity there are many modded LT1's, LS1,s that have way over 100,000 miles on them.

 

[Chris B.]

That video was awesome! Yeah all wheel drive will destroy anything!

That V8 Vette ate that DSM for lunch and then crapped it out!

 

[Surprise]

Wow fast in a straight line

 

[cousincletus]

About reliability and durability, I don't see hardly any older imports on the road compared to domestics. Wonder why? There's nothing like the sound, power and reliability of an American V-8 for the price you pay. As for the original question, I had an '84 Buick Skyhawk, 2.0 pushrod engine with the 4 speed manual trans that turned a lot of rpms at highway speeds. I sold it at 150,000+ miles and the engine still ran like new.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Who needs to shift all the time. I can go 60MPH in second with 2200 more RPM to go before I hit my rev limiter. I can also poke along at 25MPH in 4th gear and still accelerate with out lugging the engine! With a power band that is almost totaly flat from 1000-6000 RPMS and an 8200 RPM fuel cut off. With variable valve timing and variable lift you can get some extreme flexability out of 4 bangetrs. Super chargeing or turbo charging can add a wounderful dimension to them. Gone are the days of really bad turbo lag.

If I am going 60 MPH in second and still have 2200 more RPM before Redline and still have 3 more forward gears left that equals fun in my book!!! I enjoy useing my engine to both brake the vechile and set me up perfectly in the power band for the power on apexing!

An automatic effectively nueturs a sports car. A boulavard cruiser with a big V8 offered at a cheap price is not available. THe great muscle cars from days long gone handled like lumber wagons!

I can apreciate cubic inchs but not if refinement or OEM durability is left behind! It also does not do any good if the cars is either priced too high or handles poorly!

What do think the chances are of GM putting their LS1 in a light weight rwd car for under $17,000??? DO you think that DC is going to drop a Hemi in a car the size of the Neon and sellit for cheap?

Back when Steel Dinosuars roomed the earth you could get a nice Mustang, Dart Swinger, Charger, Chalanger, Super B, Cornet, Cuda, Camaro, GTO.....for $3000-$6000 dollars. MInium wage was like $2 an hour and many entry level jobs paid as high as $4 for an unskilled postion. Now you are looking at $28,000-$75,000 to come close to those types of power levels in a new ride. Of course with todays lofty minium wage of ???? $4.75$$$$$ an hour it is easy to buy such cars!

My point is that in todays market the cars that are affordable do not come with Big BLocks! Most are not even RWD as that is a luxury!

 

[S2000driver]

So my final take on "engine revs per mile vs. wear" is this:

There is a definite relationship between engine wear and:

(1) Engineering and quality control of the engine components and assemblies.

(2) Owner maintenance and driving habits.

If these two items are held constant, for a given bore X stroke the engine with the higher revs per mile will wear more quickly.

But these two variables are so significant, that revs per mile is hardly worth worrying about.

 

[HOndaGuy]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Who needs to shift all the time. I can go 60MPH in second with 2200 more RPM to go before I hit my rev limiter. I can also poke along at 25MPH in 4th gear and still accelerate with out lugging the engine! With a power band that is almost totaly flat from 1000-6000 RPMS and an 8200 RPM fuel cut off. With variable valve timing and variable lift you can get some extreme flexability out of 4 bangetrs. Super chargeing or turbo charging can add a wounderful dimension to them. Gone are the days of really bad turbo lag.

If I am going 60 MPH in second and still have 2200 more RPM before Redline and still have 3 more forward gears left that equals fun in my book!!! I enjoy useing my engine to both brake the vechile and set me up perfectly in the power band for the power on apexing!

An automatic effectively nueturs a sports car. A boulavard cruiser with a big V8 offered at a cheap price is not available. THe great muscle cars from days long gone handled like lumber wagons!

I can apreciate cubic inchs but not if refinement or OEM durability is left behind! It also does not do any good if the cars is either priced too high or handles poorly!

What do think the chances are of GM putting their LS1 in a light weight rwd car for under $17,000??? DO you think that DC is going to drop a Hemi in a car the size of the Neon and sellit for cheap?

Back when Steel Dinosuars roomed the earth you could get a nice Mustang, Dart Swinger, Charger, Chalanger, Super B, Cornet, Cuda, Camaro, GTO.....for $3000-$6000 dollars. MInium wage was like $2 an hour and many entry level jobs paid as high as $4 for an unskilled postion. Now you are looking at $28,000-$75,000 to come close to those types of power levels in a new ride. Of course with todays lofty minium wage of ???? $4.75$$$$$ an hour it is easy to buy such cars!

My point is that in todays market the cars that are affordable do not come with Big BLocks! Most are not even RWD as that is a luxury!

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Agreed, there is nothing like shifting at redline in 4 cyl cars. What i can't stand is how ppl care so much about top end power when they will never use it in the u.s. unless they go to a track. This is probably 99% of the reason I will never get a v8 sports car(not that there is anything wrong with them). Besides, Id rather have fun driving in the corners and such than to drive fast in a straight line(drag is nothing, autox takes skill).

 

[Mal]

quote:

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Originally posted by cousincletus:
About reliability and durability, I don't see hardly any older imports on the road compared to domestics. Wonder why? There's nothing like the sound, power and reliability of an American V-8 for the price you pay. As for the original question, I had an '84 Buick Skyhawk, 2.0 pushrod engine with the 4 speed manual trans that turned a lot of rpms at highway speeds. I sold it at 150,000+ miles and the engine still ran like new.

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My guess is that parts are so high for imports folks just stop repairing them. Domestic parts are much cheaper.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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About reliability and durability, I don't see hardly any older imports on the road compared to domestics. Wonder why?

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Come to California. All those European and Scandinavian antiques are living out their long lives in this mild climate.

 

[Ryan00TJ]

therion....Your statements about A Camaro being heavy and AWD can destroy RWD all the time shows your stupidity. A camaro is heavier than a Talon agreed but not by much. The Talon is actually the heavy car compared to how small it is compared to a Fbody. I've raced many a modded DSM and have not yet lost.

For the non believers.....

http://www.importevolution.com/videos/drm.wmv

 

[vazzen]

I see the word "lugging" being used here sometimes. Is that when you have WOT under 1000rpm's or..?

 

[Motorbike]

Lugging a std shift engine at light throttle increases drive line snatch , increasing rod and main bearing thrust wear . It can also because of the load cause detonation/ping which increases rod bearing and piston reciever groove and ring wear . Snatches the timing chain also when equipped .

It's very hard on an engine to be easy on it sometmes .

These things along with engine idling time and a whole lot more are why some of these VOA's here vary tremendously saying don't not use an oil just because it did not work well for another .

 

[Kestas]

quote:

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Originally posted by cousincletus:
About reliability and durability, I don't see hardly any older imports on the road compared to domestics. Wonder why?...

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Imports just rot away in the rust belt. American cars are better built in that respect. Having an engine last 250,000 miles doesn't mean much on a car if the doors are falling off. An engine can be replaced, but when the body starts falling apart it's off to the junk yard!

 

[Chris B.]

I see quiet a few Hondas that are rusted in the fender areas here in Colorado where cars don't rust. More Hondas then anything and mostly Accords.