"Engine oil viscosity has VIRTUALLY NO EFFECT ON WEAR."

[berge]

Deleted Amsoil non-sponsor link.

"Other than running out of oil, the primary oil-related problem that kills engines is DEPOSITS that cause stuck lifters, stuck piston rings and blocked oil passages. IT IS NOT WEAR".

"Engine oil viscosity has VIRTUALLY NO EFFECT ON WEAR."

"There's lots of misunderstanding about oil viscosity, much of it from oil company messages which are intended to generate a marketing advantage."

[ January 20, 2005, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[berge]

also, just found that......

Each and every Porsche 911 GT3 Cup race-car which competes in the championship will use ....

0W20 oil.

The races are in Australia BTW, NOT Antarctica.

 

[dickwells]

However, upon reading the article we find that too thick oil can indeed kill the engine, and the statement is made "do not use 20W50 oil..........."

 

[buster]

quote:

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Bulls**t, pure and simple. The person who wrote that doesn't know what they're talking about...

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And you do?

What have we seen on BITOG? Answer= Viscosities of all grades from 20wt to 50wt show good/bad results. The build quality of the oil and the engine it's going have more to do with how well the oil will perform then the viscosity of the oil.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

quote:

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Originally posted by berge:
also, just found that......

Each and every Porsche 911 GT3 Cup race-car which competes in the championship will use ....

0W20 oil.

---

I don't know anything about the Porche racing series, but are these cars street-ready or just for the track? My point is that if they're just for the track, then they can afford to tear apart the motor far more often than a street-level car. Then again, many Porche's get torn apart by 50K miles...

 

[novadude]

I agree. I also think that Crack Cocaine is good for your cardio-vascular system, and that Anti-freeze and Vodka makes a tasty after dinner drink.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,

yes the racing oil used by some vehicles in the Porsche Cup series is 0w-20
FUCHS GT1 is one such oil

ToyotaNSaturn - there are many Porsche engine "families" and some easily get well over 300k (miles) without tear down. Some are even well over 500k (miles) and still going strong!

It all depends on their application, use and care like any other engine family

Regards
Doug

MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)

 

[TR3-2001SE]

I am thinking 0w-20 would work great if the operating temp. never went over a reasonable amount. Would be nice to know what oil temp. these Porches are operating. I would guess they have oil coolers and keep the temp in a fairly moderate range.

 

[medic]

quote:

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Originally posted by novadude:
and that Anti-freeze and Vodka makes a tasty after dinner drink.

---

Yes, it does. Very sweet and smooth. Just make sure there is enough vodka to keep your BAC above 0.10%, otherwise the sweet tasting antifreeze will kill your kidneys.

I never really considered mixing antifreeze with vodka just to enjoy the sweet flavor of the ethylene glycol until now

 

[sbc350gearhead]

I have always been a "thin oil" advocate. You need a certain viscosity to provide the hydrodynamic film at the bearings. If you need a 6cst oil, and your oil temp never goes above 200 degrees F, then a 20 weight is perfect, and I don't think that you will improve upon that weight. If your oil temp is 300 degrees, then that same 20 weight will get you a few spun bearings. All the weights have their place, depending on application.

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

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Originally posted by TR3-2001SE:
I am thinking 0w-20 would work great if the operating temp. never went over a reasonable amount. Would be nice to know what oil temp. these Porches are operating. I would guess they have oil coolers and keep the temp in a fairly moderate range.

---

Race cars on a track with huge oil coolers and such usually do not run that high of an oil temp because their is over 100mph ambient air always going through the various heat exchangers. When they stop for pit stops and such or whatever, fluid temps skyrocket.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

tell that story to a BMW M3 owner and see how many switch to a thinner oil after being told to run 10w-60 to reduce change of engine failure. Viscosity is very important in many cases of engine wear, you just cant paint all cars with the same brush.

 

[jthorner]

Note this line at the very bottom of the article posted:

quote:

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Copyright © 1996 - 2003 Pecuniary, Inc. - Chuck Burnell, AMSOIL Dirct Jobber

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Sorry folks, but I do not consider any "education" from one of the many Amsoil salespeople trolling the internet to be an unbiased source of fact.

John

 

[DavoNF]

Not another Amsoil "fact sheet"

This is more the mark. I cannot remember where I sourced this info, will put it up when I find out. Sure it was not from an oil manufacturer.

quote:

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HTHS AND BEARING WEAR
In Dynomometer wear tests using four GM 3.8L engines, the wear mass of a connecting rod bearing was as follows:


HTHS 2.1
mass loss (gm.) - 190

HTHS 3.2
mass loss (gm.) - 28

For "mains" bearings:

HTHS 2.1
mass loss (gm.) - 150
HTHS 3.2
mass loss (gm.) - 40

A jump in HTHS by about +1.5 results in approximately 1/5 the wear. Now this relationship is not linear and flattens as one nears a 40+ weight oil.

---

I will agree with ZmOz.

Dave.

[ April 07, 2004, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: DavoNF ]

 

[Patman]

My belief has always been that there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to viscosity. It depends on a number of factors, such as engine design, driving habits (do you drive hard or gentle?) and the climate is important too. As well, oil temps play a HUGE factor! Someone running 20w50 oil with 300F oil temps has a thinner oil in their engine than someone running 0w20 with 180F oil temps.

 

[ekpolk]

Wouldn't another aspect of this be wear on start-up? If it is indeed true that the majority of wear happens upon start in the moments before oil flow is fully established, then I'd think that viscosity is vitally important. Of course, I'd expect this idea to be more applicable to a street car vs. a constantly stressed race or special application engine. If it's freezing outside, a 0W-x or 5W-x is, all other things being equal, going to make it to where it's needed a lot faster than a 15W-x or 20W-x oil.

It may be that the importance viscosity is oversold, but I think that the original post is way, way overbroad.

 

[buster]

What do you guys think of this point?

quote:

---

Thinner oils outperform thicker oils in some ways because these additives are actually doing something. They do not come into actual use in thicker oils. Thicker oil does not lubricate as well as a thin film of these additives. I will stop here as this is a huge SAE topic.

Thicker oils have more problems with oxidation and breakdown. If a lubricant moves through a bearing at half the speed it gets hotter before exiting the journal. A thinner, faster moving oil cools the surface better and also heats up itself to a lesser degree. It therefore thins less than a thicker oil. This is one reason why thicker is not necessarily better.

---

This will be discussed till the end of time, as it always resurfaces, but lets face it, we havn't seen any evidence on here that suggest viscosity plays that big of a role in wear- GENERALLY SPEAKING. Some engines might prefer thicker oils but most reports on here suggest viscosity is not that important.

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Some engines might prefer thicker oils but most reports on here suggest viscosity is not that important.

---

BINGO!!! DING, DING, DING!!!

For example, we've seen brand new Honda's turn in great wear numbers running both 0w-20 and 15w-50 Mobil 1...

 

[Steve S]

Also ,A racing engine is put together with minimal tolerances " I am not mentioning clearances" they are very well balanced and are not lugged,and only have to last for the length of the event. They are the best of the best. I am talking the big buck professional and or factory stuff.

 

[Ugly3]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Some engines might prefer thicker oils but most reports on here suggest viscosity is not that important.

---

BINGO!!! DING, DING, DING!!!

For example, we've seen brand new Honda's turn in great wear numbers running both 0w-20 and 15w-50 Mobil 1...

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The problem I have is that I have not seen any data that suggests the wear metals in a UOA relate in any way to actual engine wear. Look at the Paradise Garage study, there is virtually no wear reported in the 1000 mile UOAs from 5,000 miles to 15,000 miles. I don't think that can be so I think there must be some anomoly going on.