Engine noisy with Mobil 1 - Cause(s)?

[wavinwayne]

Many folks have complained that their engines are noisy while running Mobil 1, & that the noise goes away if they switch to brand "X". FWIW, my engine isn't noisy on M1; I think the stuff is great. Would anyone like to speculate on the following three questions: 1. Why would an engine be noisier running Mobil 1? 2. Why could switching to another oil, of the same viscosity, make the noise go away? 3. What is the actual noise that users of Mobil 1 are hearing?

 

[ScottB]

Oh boy...this one will be good.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I think it's a group IV thing that makes it noisy. Doesn't seem to be a problem with group IIIs Doesn't seem to be a problem with my Pennzoil Platinum Group V. ----------------- Oh Boy Pt.2.... this one is getting "gooder"

 

[BatmanLS1]

I had great results with M1 0w-40. No noise, engine ran smooth as butter. I then switched to 10w-30 and my engine makes all kinds of noise under load. It's a load ticking noise when I accelerate moderatly hard. I think it's the lifters, but not sure. The car also feels weak now. Engine is the GM 3800. I'm switching back to 0w-40 shortly.

 

[edvanp]

I have the GM 3800 too (SC version) and I love M1 but I will say the engine is louder when running M1 compared to other syn. oils. Other then the noise, the car runs great on M1. I've added VSOT in the past and that has quieted the engine down.

 

[csaxon]

My old Mercedes 450SL had chain driven camshafts. The chain tensioner was hydraulic and filled by the engine oil. MI was too thin and would bleed out of the tensioner when the engine sat. Upon restart you'd here the ticking and rattling of the chain as it ate 2 groves into the head. I went back to Castrol 20w50 and problem solved.

 

[surfstar]

 

[wavinwayne]

surfstar, I think the dead horse card is a bit premature. I realize there have been many previous threads where people complained that their engine is noisy with M1. That's not the point of this thread. I'm actually trying to find the root cause of the noise, & what the noise actually is; that's the purpose of this thread.

 

[Blue99]

Obviously, my comments are genuinely speculative, and I have zero test results to back them up, but here goes, since I believe the noise issue with M1 is very real in some engines. 1. Why would an engine be noisier running Mobil 1? The fluid properties of the PAO-AN mix magnify existing engine sounds, possibly more so at certain frequency levels. 2. Why could switching to another oil, of the same viscosity, make the noise go away? Conventional/Dino oils contain VI improvers, friction modifiers, waxy hydrocarbon chains etc. that possibly have a muting affect on the ability of a fluid to transmit noise. For the same SAE viscosity grade, dino oils will have longer chain hydrocarbons plus long, spidery VI molecules vs a synthetic, thus different fluid properties. Take a 100 ft length of 2" pipe and fill it alternately with water and chocolate syrup. Tap on one end of the pipe & the tapping noise will be more audible at the other end when the pipe is full of water vs. the syrup. 3. What is the actual noise that users of Mobil 1 are hearing? Existing mechanical noise within the engine - nothing that actually generates additional wear metal ppm's in UOA spectro analysis.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by LTVibe:

quote:

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Originally posted by jmacmaster: You guys have the wrong take on this. What with all the recent threads on M1 and noise, I'm surprised that no one's discovered the REAL reason for the noise. The fact is that M1 is so superior to any other oil that, at any given rpm, it increases hp by at least 15% and torque by at least 22%. Thus, the engine is louder because its putting out much more power than pre-M1. Its like the difference in the sound level between a small V6 and a large V8. The M1 has awakened the inner beast hiding within the engine block.

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Sorry, not quite right jmacmaster. You see, non-Mobil 1 oils produce large amounts of sludge that coats the engine internals, particularly the inside of valve/camshaft covers. This sludge has wonderful sound insulation properties which deadens any mechanical noises produced by the engine.

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Keep at it, and you two should be able to somehow combine those two theories. Work on it enough and there might be a commercial in your future.

 

[1sttruck]

The article below is about gear lubrication, which is similar to some components that we might be hearing, although the oils being used are very different. (except for some thick oil fans that just put a zerk fitting on their oil filler cap and add grease as needed to their engine :^) What's interesting is the discussion about film thickness vs temperature, where based upon complaints about noise using synthetics it seems that most pronounced observations are with cold engine, even if it's still noiser when warm ? A reasonable guess is that synthetics are producing a thinner oil film thickness at lower temps, and thus there is more clatter in some engines. Obviously viscosity is an issue, as M1 5w40 is pretty quiet in either Taurus, as is M1 0w40. http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=586&relatedbookgroup=Lubrication Selecting Oils with High Pressure-Viscosity Coefficient - Increase Bearing Life by More Than Four Times In the following article the author explores the ageless question: Are synthetic oils (PAO - Polyalpha olefin and PAG - Polyalkylene glycol) better gear and bearing lubricants than mineral oils? Practical Guidance for Selecting Lubricant (as demonstrated by Figure 3): PAG oils have significantly thicker films than PAO and mineral oils over the entire range of practical temperature. There is little difference between PAO and mineral oils for the temperature range of 70°C to 90°C. In this same temperature range, PAG lubricant gives 16 percent to 37 percent thicker films than mineral oil. For temperatures less than 70°C, mineral and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than PAO oils. For temperatures greater than 90°C, PAO and PAG oils have significantly greater film thickness than mineral oils.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

quote:

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Originally posted by 1sttruck: [QB] What's interesting is the discussion about film thickness vs temperature, where based upon complaints about noise using synthetics it seems that most pronounced observations are with cold engine, even if it's still noiser when warm ? A reasonable guess is that synthetics are producing a thinner oil film thickness at lower temps, and thus there is more clatter in some engines.

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How come the thin group IIIs aren't noisy? The discussion is about Mobil-1 group IV making noise. I've read nothing here about other oil brands. An 11 cSt Mobil-1 in 5W-30 should not be noisier than a (hypothetical) 9 cSt Valvoline Synpower 5W-20

 

[jmacmaster]

You guys have the wrong take on this. What with all the recent threads on M1 and noise, I'm surprised that no one's discovered the REAL reason for the noise. The fact is that M1 is so superior to any other oil that, at any given rpm, it increases hp by at least 15% and torque by at least 22%. Thus, the engine is louder because its putting out much more power than pre-M1. Its like the difference in the sound level between a small V6 and a large V8. The M1 has awakened the inner beast hiding within the engine block.

 

[GoldenRod]

I have never ran M1 in any of my cars thanks to the terrible misfortunes of other BITOGers who have. Having said that, it is my personel belief after all the feedback (gripes) from the good hearted, hard working folks here at BITOG, that M1 oil should be placed right next to the Fram oil filters on the shelf.

 

[LTVibe]

quote:

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Originally posted by jmacmaster: You guys have the wrong take on this. What with all the recent threads on M1 and noise, I'm surprised that no one's discovered the REAL reason for the noise. The fact is that M1 is so superior to any other oil that, at any given rpm, it increases hp by at least 15% and torque by at least 22%. Thus, the engine is louder because its putting out much more power than pre-M1. Its like the difference in the sound level between a small V6 and a large V8. The M1 has awakened the inner beast hiding within the engine block.

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Sorry, not quite right jmacmaster. You see, non-Mobil 1 oils produce large amounts of sludge that coats the engine internals, particularly the inside of valve/camshaft covers. This sludge has wonderful sound insulation properties which deadens any mechanical noises produced by the engine.

 

[ScottB]

And what are you smoking? Seriously?

 

[GoldenRod]

^^^ Yeah, I thought I would get some kind of reply after that one.

 

[wavinwayne]

Goldenrod, You're now equating Mobil 1 with Fram??? Why even bother to make a post like that?

 

[GoldenRod]

Wayne, I base my opinion souly on what others have said about their expirences with Mobil 1. As far as getting your answer to the actual reason why some engines exibit more noise with Mobil 1 than others, I really don't think we will ever know for sure. If we could just cut it open and see the cardboard end caps, that would be great; but you and I both know that it involves all kinds of weird science and chemistry.

 

[ScottB]

Every board has to have a joker... Scott