What with all the emotional well being [censored] these days?
That passenger should not have been allowed on the flight unless accompanied by an adult.
That passenger should not have been allowed on the flight unless accompanied by an adult.
emotional support gone amok
- Thread starter dnewton3
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Effective March 1, Delta’s new rules require those flying with emotional support or psychiatric service animals to submit a veterinarian health form and immunization record to Delta with 48-hours’ notice, Fox News reports. A doctor’s note, signed veterinarian health form and proof of animal training will additionally now have to be presented before boarding.
That part there is going to cut out a lot of the Bull. (no pun intended)
I'm completely against ESA's. If you need the live equivalent of an effing stuffed animal to get through this world as an adult, I hope you just cry yourself to sleep and never leave the safety of your bedroom.
These are issues the parents should have addressed when these people were about 5 or 6 years old.
Animals for the disabled, I support 100%, but this ESA stuff needs to be taken out back and shot.
Take the bus instead. Buses have plenty of animals that would like to get real close and emotional with you.
Effective March 1, Delta’s new rules require those flying with emotional support or psychiatric service animals to submit a veterinarian health form and immunization record to Delta with 48-hours’ notice, Fox News reports. A doctor’s note, signed veterinarian health form and proof of animal training will additionally now have to be presented before boarding.
That part there is going to cut out a lot of the Bull. (no pun intended)
I'm completely against ESA's. If you need the live equivalent of an effing stuffed animal to get through this world as an adult, I hope you just cry yourself to sleep and never leave the safety of your bedroom.
These are issues the parents should have addressed when these people were about 5 or 6 years old.
Animals for the disabled, I support 100%, but this ESA stuff needs to be taken out back and shot.
Take the bus instead. Buses have plenty of animals that would like to get real close and emotional with you.
Originally Posted By: pandus13
I think a journalist lady managed to get a TURKEY (Yes, you read it right) both in some restaurants and in a flight just to see it's possible.
If an animal gets in the same place i'm eating, I'm not coming back. EVER!
Remember H.S.Sapiens are a disease spreading, earth overpopulating animal too.
Don't worry, its the kitchen line cook HUMAN that didn't wash his hands that will give you the food bourn illness - or the guy who picked the lettuce who didn't walk 3 miles to the bathroom.
BTW, I don't think my old cat liked flying Delta, IIRC.
I think a journalist lady managed to get a TURKEY (Yes, you read it right) both in some restaurants and in a flight just to see it's possible.
If an animal gets in the same place i'm eating, I'm not coming back. EVER!
Remember H.S.Sapiens are a disease spreading, earth overpopulating animal too.
Don't worry, its the kitchen line cook HUMAN that didn't wash his hands that will give you the food bourn illness - or the guy who picked the lettuce who didn't walk 3 miles to the bathroom.
BTW, I don't think my old cat liked flying Delta, IIRC.
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Unfortunately I know firsthand of a person who has no issues whatsoever, but had their pocket dog classified as a "service animal" to enable flying with it.
That angers me.
The thing I'm waiting to see is what happens when someone highly allergic to animal ____ has to sit next to someone who is bringing it on board. Ive been on flights where due to a person having a peanut allergy, they weren't allowed to offer peanuts to anyone. Perhaps animal allergies aren't as bad, but then what? Who gets to not fly?
Yes, the accommodation of ESA has been abused, and both DAL and UAL are rightly taking steps to reign in some of the abuse. Finally...
On a recent flight back from Paris-EWR, we had a lady with two giant, furry cats. ESA. Cat lady was in row 1 (first class). Right behind her, in row 2 (also 1st class, this was a 767-400) was a woman who was highly allergic.
So, emotional condition, or medical condition? Who wins?
I had to call back to Chicago to get a ruling on this one. Now, my personal position, since I was about to have to get involved, was to remove cat lady.
Emotional condition wins, since it's covered by the ADA.
That doesn't seem right to me, but the company lawyers have looked at this one...
On that flight, a kind passenger in row 6, who was not allergic, offered to trade with the allergic lady. (We gave him 5,000 miles as a thank you, by the way) and the problem was resolved before I had to take somebody off the airplane.
Unfortunately I know firsthand of a person who has no issues whatsoever, but had their pocket dog classified as a "service animal" to enable flying with it.
That angers me.
The thing I'm waiting to see is what happens when someone highly allergic to animal ____ has to sit next to someone who is bringing it on board. Ive been on flights where due to a person having a peanut allergy, they weren't allowed to offer peanuts to anyone. Perhaps animal allergies aren't as bad, but then what? Who gets to not fly?
Yes, the accommodation of ESA has been abused, and both DAL and UAL are rightly taking steps to reign in some of the abuse. Finally...
On a recent flight back from Paris-EWR, we had a lady with two giant, furry cats. ESA. Cat lady was in row 1 (first class). Right behind her, in row 2 (also 1st class, this was a 767-400) was a woman who was highly allergic.
So, emotional condition, or medical condition? Who wins?
I had to call back to Chicago to get a ruling on this one. Now, my personal position, since I was about to have to get involved, was to remove cat lady.
Emotional condition wins, since it's covered by the ADA.
That doesn't seem right to me, but the company lawyers have looked at this one...
On that flight, a kind passenger in row 6, who was not allergic, offered to trade with the allergic lady. (We gave him 5,000 miles as a thank you, by the way) and the problem was resolved before I had to take somebody off the airplane.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I'm all for service dogs. German Shepherds seem to be the smartest.
Service dogs are welcome. They are extremely well trained and behaved. They don't annoy anyone.
But the problem is that the ESA are unregulated. Anyone can claim that they need an emotional support animal (often to avoid having to pay to transport their pet), get it in writing from some quack, and force their way on to the airplane with their animal.
However, ESAs have defecated in the cabin, urinated on other passengers, and bitten other passengers.
Now, who is at fault? The jerk with the ESA?
Or the airline that let them bring this untrained animal on board?
I remain predisposed to removing animals that are not genuine service animals. Emotional support simply isn't the same kind of service as a seeing-eye dog or other genuine service animal. I've seen wounded warriors with their service dogs. Both dog and owners have been exceptionally polite, unassuming, and well-behaved.
Need emotional support?
Get the same quack doctor to write you a prescription for Valium...or bring a friend...but leave the biting, untrained, animal at home.
I'm all for service dogs. German Shepherds seem to be the smartest.
Service dogs are welcome. They are extremely well trained and behaved. They don't annoy anyone.
But the problem is that the ESA are unregulated. Anyone can claim that they need an emotional support animal (often to avoid having to pay to transport their pet), get it in writing from some quack, and force their way on to the airplane with their animal.
However, ESAs have defecated in the cabin, urinated on other passengers, and bitten other passengers.
Now, who is at fault? The jerk with the ESA?
Or the airline that let them bring this untrained animal on board?
I remain predisposed to removing animals that are not genuine service animals. Emotional support simply isn't the same kind of service as a seeing-eye dog or other genuine service animal. I've seen wounded warriors with their service dogs. Both dog and owners have been exceptionally polite, unassuming, and well-behaved.
Need emotional support?
Get the same quack doctor to write you a prescription for Valium...or bring a friend...but leave the biting, untrained, animal at home.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Unfortunately I know firsthand of a person who has no issues whatsoever, but had their pocket dog classified as a "service animal" to enable flying with it.
That angers me.
The thing I'm waiting to see is what happens when someone highly allergic to animal ____ has to sit next to someone who is bringing it on board. Ive been on flights where due to a person having a peanut allergy, they weren't allowed to offer peanuts to anyone. Perhaps animal allergies aren't as bad, but then what? Who gets to not fly?
Yes, the accommodation of ESA has been abused, and both DAL and UAL are rightly taking steps to reign in some of the abuse. Finally...
On a recent flight back from Paris-EWR, we had a lady with two giant, furry cats. ESA. Cat lady was in row 1 (first class). Right behind her, in row 2 (also 1st class, this was a 767-400) was a woman who was highly allergic.
So, emotional condition, or medical condition? Who wins?
I had to call back to Chicago to get a ruling on this one. Now, my personal position, since I was about to have to get involved, was to remove cat lady.
Emotional condition wins, since it's covered by the ADA.
That doesn't seem right to me, but the company lawyers have looked at this one...
On that flight, a kind passenger in row 6, who was not allergic, offered to trade with the allergic lady. (We gave him 5,000 miles as a thank you, by the way) and the problem was resolved before I had to take somebody off the airplane.
Wow, so now there's data. I would have voted to remove cat, not lady (isnt there dedicated areas for animals?), but of course that wouldnt count given that one is a legally protected group and therefore "superior" via said protections in the eyes of the law.
There's no good answer to these types of things.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Unfortunately I know firsthand of a person who has no issues whatsoever, but had their pocket dog classified as a "service animal" to enable flying with it.
That angers me.
The thing I'm waiting to see is what happens when someone highly allergic to animal ____ has to sit next to someone who is bringing it on board. Ive been on flights where due to a person having a peanut allergy, they weren't allowed to offer peanuts to anyone. Perhaps animal allergies aren't as bad, but then what? Who gets to not fly?
Yes, the accommodation of ESA has been abused, and both DAL and UAL are rightly taking steps to reign in some of the abuse. Finally...
On a recent flight back from Paris-EWR, we had a lady with two giant, furry cats. ESA. Cat lady was in row 1 (first class). Right behind her, in row 2 (also 1st class, this was a 767-400) was a woman who was highly allergic.
So, emotional condition, or medical condition? Who wins?
I had to call back to Chicago to get a ruling on this one. Now, my personal position, since I was about to have to get involved, was to remove cat lady.
Emotional condition wins, since it's covered by the ADA.
That doesn't seem right to me, but the company lawyers have looked at this one...
On that flight, a kind passenger in row 6, who was not allergic, offered to trade with the allergic lady. (We gave him 5,000 miles as a thank you, by the way) and the problem was resolved before I had to take somebody off the airplane.
Wow, so now there's data. I would have voted to remove cat, not lady (isnt there dedicated areas for animals?), but of course that wouldnt count given that one is a legally protected group and therefore "superior" via said protections in the eyes of the law.
There's no good answer to these types of things.
The main problem is that "service animals" and "support animals" are sometimes lumped together when they are very different things. This is all with the information readily available that distinguishes the two.
If places, including airlines, would just follow the ADA rules on the matter, this wouldn't have become an issue.
And if there still remains a question after learning the law, it's completely legal to ask the owner "what does it do?", which under ADA is also specifically defined.
If places, including airlines, would just follow the ADA rules on the matter, this wouldn't have become an issue.
And if there still remains a question after learning the law, it's completely legal to ask the owner "what does it do?", which under ADA is also specifically defined.
People that exploit the rules for service dogs hurt those that need and benefit from them. We know a family that has a now 10-year-old boy that has a service dog. He has severe seizures and his service dog alerts his parents 5-10 minutes before they happen. The dog is correct almost 100% of the time and this warning time has been a life saver for the boy.
This boy is homeschooled but his parents make every effort to mainstream him as much as possible. The problem is that every year now the boy and his dog find themselves banned from more places. There are a few places that make a big deal about allowing service dogs but more places do not. This lady with the peacock will do more damage to the system just like others that play this stupid game of exploiting the system to the detriment of those like this little boy.
This boy is homeschooled but his parents make every effort to mainstream him as much as possible. The problem is that every year now the boy and his dog find themselves banned from more places. There are a few places that make a big deal about allowing service dogs but more places do not. This lady with the peacock will do more damage to the system just like others that play this stupid game of exploiting the system to the detriment of those like this little boy.
dnewton3
Staff member
gotta love the interwebbie ... info at your finger tips
https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/passengers-disabilities
http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/73
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/P3.SA_.HUD Matrix.6-28-6.pdf
And this coup de grace; see questions 3 and 4
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
Support animals that are not specifically trained to detect and offset specific psychiatric conditions do NOT qualify as "service animals" and are not covered by the ADA.
I doubt the peacock was anything but a ploy to take a pet on a trip for the fun of it. Maybe is was "emotional support", but it's not legally required to be accommodated.
https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/passengers-disabilities
http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/73
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/P3.SA_.HUD Matrix.6-28-6.pdf
And this coup de grace; see questions 3 and 4
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
Support animals that are not specifically trained to detect and offset specific psychiatric conditions do NOT qualify as "service animals" and are not covered by the ADA.
I doubt the peacock was anything but a ploy to take a pet on a trip for the fun of it. Maybe is was "emotional support", but it's not legally required to be accommodated.
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: pandus13
I think a journalist lady managed to get a TURKEY (Yes, you read it right) both in some restaurants and in a flight just to see it's possible.
If an animal gets in the same place i'm eating, I'm not coming back. EVER!
Remember H.S.Sapiens are a disease spreading, earth overpopulating animal too.
Don't worry, its the kitchen line cook HUMAN that didn't wash his hands that will give you the food bourn illness - or the guy who picked the lettuce who didn't walk 3 miles to the bathroom.
BTW, I don't think my old cat liked flying Delta, IIRC.
As someone with Lyme disease, I've learned the following:
1. Lyme is transmitted by almost any insect you can imagine (not just ticks).
2. The subset of the aforementioned insects which attach to animals have a very high preference for household pets.
3. It is highly suspected that Lyme is spread through fluids, including saliva.
I don't want to be in an airplane, or a store, with pets, especially other people's. A store is bad enough. A plane carrying animals from all over the nation, or the world - No thank you.
Originally Posted By: pandus13
I think a journalist lady managed to get a TURKEY (Yes, you read it right) both in some restaurants and in a flight just to see it's possible.
If an animal gets in the same place i'm eating, I'm not coming back. EVER!
Remember H.S.Sapiens are a disease spreading, earth overpopulating animal too.
Don't worry, its the kitchen line cook HUMAN that didn't wash his hands that will give you the food bourn illness - or the guy who picked the lettuce who didn't walk 3 miles to the bathroom.
BTW, I don't think my old cat liked flying Delta, IIRC.
As someone with Lyme disease, I've learned the following:
1. Lyme is transmitted by almost any insect you can imagine (not just ticks).
2. The subset of the aforementioned insects which attach to animals have a very high preference for household pets.
3. It is highly suspected that Lyme is spread through fluids, including saliva.
I don't want to be in an airplane, or a store, with pets, especially other people's. A store is bad enough. A plane carrying animals from all over the nation, or the world - No thank you.
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: pandus13
I think a journalist lady managed to get a TURKEY (Yes, you read it right) both in some restaurants and in a flight just to see it's possible.
If an animal gets in the same place i'm eating, I'm not coming back. EVER!
Remember H.S.Sapiens are a disease spreading, earth overpopulating animal too.
Don't worry, its the kitchen line cook HUMAN that didn't wash his hands that will give you the food bourn illness - or the guy who picked the lettuce who didn't walk 3 miles to the bathroom.
BTW, I don't think my old cat liked flying Delta, IIRC.
My money = my decisions
And if you think H.Sapiens (Humans) are extra on Earth, while you type this on a Chinesium computer , I think about 80-90% of the other people in the World have a standard of living lower than yours. You are welcome to donate everything to them. Whatever everything might be to you.
Back to topic:
I think the ESA new movement of using this no matter what is hurting both the ADA and the responsible animal owners and animal lovers.
Originally Posted By: pandus13
I think a journalist lady managed to get a TURKEY (Yes, you read it right) both in some restaurants and in a flight just to see it's possible.
If an animal gets in the same place i'm eating, I'm not coming back. EVER!
Remember H.S.Sapiens are a disease spreading, earth overpopulating animal too.
Don't worry, its the kitchen line cook HUMAN that didn't wash his hands that will give you the food bourn illness - or the guy who picked the lettuce who didn't walk 3 miles to the bathroom.
BTW, I don't think my old cat liked flying Delta, IIRC.
My money = my decisions
And if you think H.Sapiens (Humans) are extra on Earth, while you type this on a Chinesium computer , I think about 80-90% of the other people in the World have a standard of living lower than yours. You are welcome to donate everything to them. Whatever everything might be to you.
Back to topic:
I think the ESA new movement of using this no matter what is hurting both the ADA and the responsible animal owners and animal lovers.
I would like to board a plane with my emotional support ostrich, thank you!
I was settled in my 5th row bulkhead window seat, the first row in Economy on a cross-country flight. A ruckus broke out in my row on the other side of the aisle. The man in the other bulkhead window seat was very agitated and vehement that he would not take his seat next to an emotional support animal because he was scared of dogs. Another passenger next to him had boarded with a large, young German Sheppard. The flight attendant had told the scared passenger that the flight was full and he'd have to deboard the plane and see the gate agent for reassignment. I saw my opportunity and jumped up. I offered up my seat, same as the other passenger but on the other side of plane in exchange for his. The FA thanked me and we were on our way.
The FA thanked me and offered me first class breakfast for being helpful.
The dog seemed way more emotionally upset about flying than the human. The human spent a lot of time caressing the dog and reassuring him. The dog spent more time on my side of the row and I took my shoes off and tucked my feet under the dog to keep them warm. He didn't seem to mind. When we boarded the plane, the dog had an "emotional support animal" vest. But the human took it off and people the dog was a medical alert dog trained because he had a heart condition. The human looked like a soldier and I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he might have had PTSD.
I get nervous flying even though I fly about 25000 mile as year. It was very calming to have the dog there.
The FA thanked me and offered me first class breakfast for being helpful.
The dog seemed way more emotionally upset about flying than the human. The human spent a lot of time caressing the dog and reassuring him. The dog spent more time on my side of the row and I took my shoes off and tucked my feet under the dog to keep them warm. He didn't seem to mind. When we boarded the plane, the dog had an "emotional support animal" vest. But the human took it off and people the dog was a medical alert dog trained because he had a heart condition. The human looked like a soldier and I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he might have had PTSD.
I get nervous flying even though I fly about 25000 mile as year. It was very calming to have the dog there.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Unfortunately I know firsthand of a person who has no issues whatsoever, but had their pocket dog classified as a "service animal" to enable flying with it.
That angers me.
Yes, when we were on our holiday earlier this year, my sister suggested that she was going to get her Cavoodle trained to be a support dog, then she could take him anywhere.
I started pointing out that the premise should be the NEED for a support dog, not that the dog has been trained.
I know that I was pretty vocal in the other thread, and I DO understand the benefits of support animals for PTSD and support that, but for my sister with a masters in psych...that was a bridge far too far.
Unfortunately I know firsthand of a person who has no issues whatsoever, but had their pocket dog classified as a "service animal" to enable flying with it.
That angers me.
Yes, when we were on our holiday earlier this year, my sister suggested that she was going to get her Cavoodle trained to be a support dog, then she could take him anywhere.
I started pointing out that the premise should be the NEED for a support dog, not that the dog has been trained.
I know that I was pretty vocal in the other thread, and I DO understand the benefits of support animals for PTSD and support that, but for my sister with a masters in psych...that was a bridge far too far.
I sent this to my girlfriend over my lunch break. Pretty funny stuff.
We joke about taking her dog(s) places with us with a service dog harness. They can be purchased on Amazon after all.
I have a soft spot for people who genuinely need them (whatever reason that may be), but I do feel like anything else it's taken advantage of.
We have a local guy that brings his mutt into Walmart with no harness, leash or collar. Claims it helps him with heart attacks. I have no issues with dogs, but there's folks out there with allergies or who are genuinely terrified of them from past experiences.
We joke about taking her dog(s) places with us with a service dog harness. They can be purchased on Amazon after all.
I have a soft spot for people who genuinely need them (whatever reason that may be), but I do feel like anything else it's taken advantage of.
We have a local guy that brings his mutt into Walmart with no harness, leash or collar. Claims it helps him with heart attacks. I have no issues with dogs, but there's folks out there with allergies or who are genuinely terrified of them from past experiences.
It is unfortunate that many folks have decided to exploit the issue for their own personal gain (ie: I get to fly with my animal). Once upon a time, people generally did the right thing and I think we all agree that legitimate service animals are incredibly valuable to society as a whole, and should be accomodated - and sometimes that means changing seats, etc (easy fixes) to accomodate the service animal and allergies or fears of other passengers. I'd do so in a heartbeat, as real service animals are not a bother to be next to - they have a job, and they are doing it.
At the end of the day, standardized certification of service animals is going to have to become the norm. There isn't an out. And unfortunately, this will impact those who need their service animals the most - and why it will be fought every step of the way by disabled advocates, consequences be ...
At the end of the day, standardized certification of service animals is going to have to become the norm. There isn't an out. And unfortunately, this will impact those who need their service animals the most - and why it will be fought every step of the way by disabled advocates, consequences be ...
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