Elon Musk was very lucky, NASA saved his behind !

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Nevertheless, Musk got all of the glory Friday night, and understandably so. He built SpaceX from the ground up, surviving three launch failures that almost killed the company and endless scorn from much larger competitors who never believed this weird guy from South Africa could threaten their billion-dollar businesses. Today, Musk stands at the vanguard of the new space movement that seeks to radically rewrite the economics of spaceflight as the old-guard competitors tremble.

In his excellent book Elon Musk, author Ashlee Vance recounts the most dramatic of NASA's saves. From 2006 to 2008, SpaceX endured three failed launches of the Falcon 1 rocket. The fourth, in September 2008, finally succeeded. Still, the company appeared poised to go bankrupt as it struggled to meet payroll in late 2008. Even as its cash ran out, SpaceX was in the midst of capital-intensive transition from the single-engine Falcon 1 rocket to the much more complex Falcon 9 rocket. Moreover, to earn business from NASA to supply the ISS, it would also need to build a delivery capsule.


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That fall and early winter marked the darkest hours for the cash-strapped Musk, as both SpaceX and Tesla spent hundreds of millions of dollars on development, with little revenue to show for it. "I could either pick SpaceX or Tesla or split the money I had left between them," Musk told Vance in the book. "That was a tough decision. If I split the money, maybe both of them would die. If I gave the money to just one company, the probability of it surviving was greater, but then it would mean certain death for the other company." The economy worsened that fall, and by December, Musk's money had run out and he'd tapped all the loans he could.

Then, two days before Christmas of 2008, NASA announced it was awarding commercial cargo contracts to Orbital Sciences for 19 flights and SpaceX for 12 flights. The contract was valued at $1.6 billion for SpaceX.


Quote:
That contract allowed SpaceX to finish the Falcon 9 rocket and build the Dragon spacecraft. The Falcon 9 has become the company's workhorse rocket, which offers launches at a steep discount to competitors. With the cargo contract, SpaceX also positioned itself to win a lucrative $2.6 billion contract from NASA to deliver crews to the ISS beginning as early as next year. During most of his tenure as NASA administrator, Charles Bolden has been a steady ally, continually advocating for more commercial cargo and crew funding for private companies.


Quote:
But on Friday night it was all good. Across NASA's field centers, in cubicles, offices, and coffee rooms, the engineers working on various projects were watching. As one young flight controller from Johnson Space Center told me about her experience, "There were about 20 people crowded around my screen, and we were all going nuts." Elon Musk hasn't forgotten NASA, either. The first thing he did during Friday's news conference was to thank the space agency that had made it all possible.



http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/04/w...t-boat-landing/

Did Orbital Sciences launch any rocket/cargo for NASA in the last 8 years ?
 
NASA is in a sorry state. It's more like the private sector is saving NASA. And that's not a reflection on NASA, moreso on our pitiful funding of NASA.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Did Orbital Sciences launch any rocket/cargo for NASA in the last 8 years ?


Yes. Orbital ATK has docked their Cygnus spacecraft with the ISS four times and had one failure of it's Antares launch vehicle. Cygnus is modular and designed to be used with Orbital's Antares or ULA's Atlas V. Since the Antares failure, they've been using the Atlas V as a launch vehicle. They'll be using the Antares again beginning with the next launch.

Next CRS mission for both SpaceX and Orbital ATK is June 24th. Both are scheduled to launch on the same day, which is pretty cool.

Orbital ATK is also the supplier of the 5-stage SRBs being developed for the Block 1 and 1B SLS.
 
Why do people hate on Elon Musk? NASA can't launch a monkey into space now. We rely on Russia to do all of the delivery to the ISS, and somehow thats ok. Our government has left all of this innovation up to private industry which i am ok with, because they are a for profit business and will not waste tax payer dollars. He gets help from NASA, but he is risking his own money to make real innovation that will touch all of us, just like NASA used to do.
 
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Why do people hate on Elon Musk? NASA can't launch a monkey into space now. We rely on Russia to do all of the delivery to the ISS, and somehow thats ok. Our government has left all of this innovation up to private industry which i am ok with, because they are a for profit business and will not waste tax payer dollars. He gets help from NASA, but he is risking his own money to make real innovation that will touch all of us, just like NASA used to do.

Many ignore this fact. He invested his own fortune after he sold Pay-Pal into 2 companies: Space-X and Tesla. Both companies almost went under if he didn't get help from NASA in 2008 and Federal Government(Dept of Energy) in 2010.

I read an article few weeks ago, it said that Space-X is lowest cost to launch anything into orbit, as little as $100 mils while Being demands $200 mils or more.

With Falcon 9 main rocket can be reused the cost of a launch can be less than $100 mils, that save tax payers some money. And when they can launch both cargo and astronauts to ISS we can stop pay good money to Russia as we had been doing for several years.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I read an article few weeks ago, it said that Space-X is lowest cost to launch anything into orbit, as little as $100 mils while Being demands $200 mils or more.

Wrong article. His Intelsat was just cancelled (after being delayed for 4 years) and went to Russians, where Protons work for $70M. His Via Sat contract was also cancelled and went to Arianne 5. He is doing fine with NASA
 
SpaceX also gets untold millions worth of NASA consulting, access to NASA test facilities, and their engines are even based on NASA (i.e. taxpayer funded) designs.

Yes it's cheaper than the Shuttle. But it will never have the capability of the Shuttle. Nothing we have now could ever build something like the ISS.
 
Hey HTSS_TR, have you seen that episode of Big Bang Theory where Howard meets Elon Musk while doing the dishes at the soup kitchen? I watched that the other day and I thought of you and your posts on here....
smile.gif
LOL. You remind me of Howard in that episode...
J/K poking a little fun.

Too many people hate on Elon. I don't doubt he has done some good things and bring along two companies (with a lot of development money) is amazing. No company is perfect, many get grants, etc. Maybe the Tesla will or won't be a super hit. But kudos to building two companies from the ground up that are development intensive.
 
NASA is another agency like the USPS (yes I realise USPS not 'directly' Gov). As such NASA's costs are high for the value returned.

There is really no need to ever put man in space again. Machines can do anything man can up there. Also the costs are exponential trying to create the huuuuge reliability to insure a person is not killed. The reliability factor probably adds multiple times the costs to manned endeavors.

NASA did great things in the past and getting rocks from the moon proved that the moon broke away from earth. The Hubble was NASA's greatest achievement....helping to develope tghe latest on cosmology research.

The biggest yet to come will be the Webb telescope. It will have a 6.5 M mirror compared to a 2.4 Mirror on Hubble. Honestly this telescope will be one of the biggest events of my life...I am so into this stuff.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Hey HTSS_TR, have you seen that episode of Big Bang Theory where Howard meets Elon Musk while doing the dishes at the soup kitchen? I watched that the other day and I thought of you and your posts on here....
smile.gif
LOL. You remind me of Howard in that episode...
J/K poking a little fun.

Too many people hate on Elon. I don't doubt he has done some good things and bring along two companies (with a lot of development money) is amazing. No company is perfect, many get grants, etc. Maybe the Tesla will or won't be a super hit. But kudos to building two companies from the ground up that are development intensive.

With his own money(plus some money from early investors).

How many willing to bet his/her own fortune in a couple unknown/risky ventures ?

What did Musk know about design/engineer a rocket before started Space-X ? What did he know about running a car business before stared Tesla ? He probably didn't know anything about either, but betting several hundreds million he got from selling Paypal to eBay was very brave.

Record showed that he received many helps from various government agencies over the years, but both companies are doing well now mainly because of him.
 
Originally Posted By: KingCake
This is Elon's MO. He can't do anything without government handouts.


Do you have any idea of what you're commenting about? Do you realize how much money the government hands out? Untold millions of tax payer dollars are tossed up in the air to fund mind numbing, completely useless research that yields zero benefit to the tax payer, or mankind. Elon Musk actually produces something. He has released all of his patents for the Tesla battery technology so that others can use, improve, and benefit from what he has developed. I have no idea how much money the government gives him, but I know it is a rare instance that we see a return on our investment. Would you rather the government strip him of any funding so we can give more $$$ to NIH so we can learn more about the obesity problem among the [censored] community?
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
With his own money(plus some money from early investors).

How many willing to bet his/her own fortune in a couple unknown/risky ventures ?

What did Musk know about design/engineer a rocket before started Space-X ? What did he know about running a car business before stared Tesla ? He probably didn't know anything about either, but betting several hundreds million he got from selling Paypal to eBay was very brave.

Record showed that he received many helps from various government agencies over the years, but both companies are doing well now mainly because of him.


How is this different from someone investing their entire life saving to start their own little business? You make it sound like Musk is one of the very few willing to take risks and investing his own money and you are idolizing him for it.

Musk is a smart businessman and he is only interested in making money. So let's not act like a young school girl that is about to wet her panties on the thought of meeting her favorite boy band and look at things logically.

His car venture is only held together by government money and the carbon credits, as every single car he makes looses big money. Musk went in fully knowing this and he is hoping that the government and the carbon credits will keep the business afloat until the electric car takes off or the public is forced into it. The pre-payment for the model 3 is just another scheme to get the extra money now. Tesla is doing just that full time.
How can other established car makers follow such a model when their EV is just a small division of the company with a very limited budget. These companies still have to allocate resources to their regular bread and butter projects in order to stay competitive. That is why their efforts seem lackluster, but this is not an indication that Musk and Tesla possess some superior technology not known to others. Plus the bigger the corporations, the harder it is to change their direction or focus. Something that Musk doesn't have to deal with.

I command Musk and wish his endeavors success, but the idolization of the guy and making him the next Steve Jobs by some is borderline crazy.
 
It is quite simple, no one else is willing to take the jump and just commit to it in terms of EV.

Why? Because all the big guys have their hands in the oil/gas industry. They all play golf together and wouldn't want bad blood screwing up their handicap.

Speaking of Govt. handouts they have had more than their fair share and never paid back in full. EV is the future along with H2 and CNG fuel cells but that would put the big guys out of business.

Elon Musk is doing what the big guys won't and can't because all they care about is their own bottom line.
 
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Elon Musk is doing what the big guys won't and can't because all they care about is their own bottom line.


And do you really think Musk is not? He does it out of the goodness of his heart? Don't be silly.
lol.gif

He recognized that there is a gap in the market that the established automakers are reluctant to fill in. He also recognized that the very generous EV grants, handouts and carbon credits just might make his business plan viable before he can lower the manufacturing costs.
He has a huge potential to make billions here and corner the market. And if the always hungry for a new idol masses start adoring him as Earth's savior, while he makes his fortune, it's a freebie for him. He can then pull off all kinds of shenanigans like Jobs did and still be worshipped.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Elon Musk is doing what the big guys won't and can't because all they care about is their own bottom line.


And do you really think Musk is not? He does it out of the goodness of his heart? Don't be silly.
lol.gif

He recognized that there is a gap in the market that the established automakers are reluctant to fill in. He also recognized that the very generous EV grants, handouts and carbon credits just might make his business plan viable before he can lower the manufacturing costs.
He has a huge potential to make billions here and corner the market. And if the always hungry for a new idol masses start adoring him as Earth's savior, while he makes his fortune, it's a freebie for him. He can then pull off all kinds of shenanigans like Jobs did and still be worshipped.

I get the impression that he is a bit of an idealist. He has an idea of how something should logically work, and then tries to be the guy who gets it done.
There were lots of easier, more likely to be profitable investments he could have made with his paypal money, than starting an EV car company and competing with aerospace companies to build re-usable rockets. But he isn't driven by pure profit and took the risks that other people wouldn't, and seems to be successful so far.
Anyways, I think his downfall will be that he won't play dirty enough to win against the existing big players. They have decades of experience in influencing(bribing) politicians and policy... I get the impression he'd rather find the best technical solutions to solve problems that others see no profit in, then play the backroom games to really ratchet up the profits...
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Elon Musk is doing what the big guys won't and can't because all they care about is their own bottom line.


And do you really think Musk is not? He does it out of the goodness of his heart? Don't be silly.
lol.gif

He recognized that there is a gap in the market that the established automakers are reluctant to fill in. He also recognized that the very generous EV grants, handouts and carbon credits just might make his business plan viable before he can lower the manufacturing costs.
He has a huge potential to make billions here and corner the market. And if the always hungry for a new idol masses start adoring him as Earth's savior, while he makes his fortune, it's a freebie for him. He can then pull off all kinds of shenanigans like Jobs did and still be worshipped.


Then why release the patents? Unless it was part of some underhand deal with the govt which I highly doubt.

The point is which you seem to miss is he is willing to take all the risk, profit be [censored].

Like was said above his undoing will be not having the industry & it's politics in his pocket. The UAW has had it that way for decades which is why they are fighting tooth & nail against having no dealerships.
 
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