Elf Evolution 0w30 VW506.01 in 2003 Golf TDI

[TooSlick]

Fowvay,

I'd say any 5w-40 or 10w-40, CI-4+ oil would improve on these numbers even at the same soot levels.

TS

 

[TooSlick]

The oversized injectors are enough to cause these fairly high soot levels. Combine that with a high mileage engine with more blowby and I don't think your soot levels are abnormal at all. I've seen soot levels as high as 3% after 10k miles with some of the earlier Passat TDI's.

The increase in silicon would also indicate you're seeing more blowby with the 0w-30 and this would also result in higher soot levels in the oil. I"d bet the significantly thicker 5w-40 is simply giving you a better ring seal in this case.

OAI can't run an accurate test for Ox/Nit, since they don't have baseline data on this formulation.

Ted

 

[Tornado Red]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
The oversized injectors are enough to cause these fairly high soot levels. Combine that with a high mileage engine with more blowby and I don't think your soot levels are abnormal at all. I've seen soot levels as high as 3% after 10k miles with some of the earlier Passat TDI's.

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The nozzles are only slightly bigger than stock -- though if I end up replacing them I will go up one more step.

quote:

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The increase in silicon would also indicate you're seeing more blowby with the 0w-30 and this would also result in higher soot levels in the oil.

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I'm pretty sure I really don't have a silicone/silica problem. I think it's an artifact from the virgin oil.

 

[TooSlick]

TR,

If you look at the guys in the TDI Forum getting good results with these thin, VW 506.01 oils, they're generating very low soot levels and/or using biodiesel blends which reduce ring/cylinder wear.

Generally, using a thin oil in a high mileage diesel engine with significant soot levels is "contra-indicated", as my Doc likes to say. There is only so much you can do with additives - you still need separation of moving parts in the valvetrain and this is first and foremost a function of viscosity.

Ted

 

[Tornado Red]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
[Generally, using a thin oil in a high mileage diesel engine with significant soot levels is "contra-indicated", as my Doc likes to say. There is only so much you can do with additives - you still need separation of moving parts in the valvetrain and this is first and foremost a function of viscosity.

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True. I have been focusing mostly on other questions, and ignoring viscosity. Back when I knew even less about oil than I do now, at least I knew that older engines often required a higher viscosity oil.

I guess I just wasn't thinking that my TDI with nearly 180k miles is a high-mileage engine. Heck, I'm still breaking it in! I'm planning on getting about 600k-700k miles without a tear-down. But maybe if I want it to last that long, I need to stick with the Delvac that got it to this point, and not mess around with lighter oils even as an experiment.

 

[TooSlick]

Not to rain on your parade, but if the turbo lasts that long on many of these TDI"s, I'll be shocked!

TS

 

[moribundman]

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I'm planning on getting about 600k-700k miles without a tear-down.

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I'm afraid that's very unlikely with a modern, small diesel engine. If you want that kind of longevity, you should look into getting a late '80s MB 190D 2.5 liter 5 cylinder turbo diesel engine.

 

[Tornado Red]

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Originally posted by moribundman:

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I'm planning on getting about 600k-700k miles without a tear-down.

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I'm afraid that's very unlikely with a modern, small diesel engine. If you want that kind of longevity, you should look into getting a late '80s MB 190D 2.5 liter 5 cylinder turbo diesel engine.

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I've heard that VW designed the TDI engine to last 25,000 hours. That would be about 12 years or about 600k miles for my Golf. I don't expect the turbo to last that long.

Most VW TDIs will die from collisions or other traffic accidents before the engine wears out.

 

[moribundman]

Well, used cars with diesel engines used to be very popular in Germany. People would not hesitate to buy high mileage disel vehicles. The past few years, selling diesel engines, especially VW diesel engines with over 200k km (over 125k mi) has become difficult. Especially the PD diesel engines seem to wear out earlier than would would hope or expect. Maybe that's why VW is dropping the PD design and moving on to common-rail diesel? Non PD diesel engines may also be shorter lived than older, less complex designs.

 

[TooSlick]

TR,

You'll find diesel taxi's going that long,but the engines are rarely shut down and see few cold starts during the day. That makes all the difference in the world....

TS

 

[marco246]

The propaganda at the VW dealership is that my PD diesel engine should last 350,000 miles. Other than as a mark on the wall it doesn't mean much. Over the last three years my teenagers have demonstrated an astonishing inability to keep from running into things or off the road entirely. This has resulted in painstakingly maintained vehicles (using the finest synthetics and moderate change intervals) prematurely ending up in the boneyard. With perfect hindsight, it would have been smarter to just do the absolute minimum to keep these cars on the road, knowing they were doomed never to see 100,000 miles. . . . (End howl of pain).

 

[Tornado Red]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
You'll find diesel taxi's going that long,but the engines are rarely shut down and see few cold starts during the day. That makes all the difference in the world....]

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My TDI runs pretty much continously during the day, so usually the only cold start is the first one in the morning.

quote:

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Originally posted by Moribundman
Used cars with diesel engines used to be very popular in Germany. People would not hesitate to buy high mileage disel vehicles. The past few years, selling diesel engines, especially VW diesel engines with over 200k km (over 125k mi) has become difficult. Especially the PD diesel engines seem to wear out earlier than would would hope or expect. Maybe that's why VW is dropping the PD design and moving on to common-rail diesel?

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The pumpe duse injection system works pretty well, it seems, but common-rail may be cheaper to produce, and probably cheaper to fix.

The kind of injection system is not really relevant to the durability of the power train. An injection-pump failure rarely causes damage to the engine.

 

[moribundman]

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The kind of injection system is not really relevant to the durability of the power train. An injection-pump failure rarely causes damage to the engine.

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I did not mean to imply that the PD design will cause engine damage.

Wear will easily make the PD injector drive unit perform outside of specified parameters and necessitate a costly repair. This does in effect decrease long term reliability and life expectancy of an engine.