and me.
EDGE EP and M1 EP. Ok to mix?
- Thread starter wemay
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Yup, fully compatible.
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Here's the limitations of "compatible"...seriously, salad dresssingg test, nothing more offered.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...922#Post3503439
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...922#Post3503439
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Here's the limitations of "compatible"...seriously, salad dresssingg test, nothing more offered.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...922#Post3503439
VERY interesting, thanks Shannow
Here's the limitations of "compatible"...seriously, salad dresssingg test, nothing more offered.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...922#Post3503439
VERY interesting, thanks Shannow
No sense in ruining perfectly good Edge by dumping M1 in it.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Shannow
If you need 5W performance, mixing two disparate 5Ws does not guarantee that you are getting it.
I see you're still bringing up this unsubstantiated claim.
Could you give us one proven example of two 5W oils that shouldn't be blended because the result will be a 10W oil?
It's an old reference and you may argue that it doesn't apply to todays oils. However, the following citation addresses Shannow's point without ambiguity.
Citation:
Rhodes, R., "Low-Temperature Compatibility of Engine Lubricants and the Risk of Engine Pumpability Failure," SAE Technical Paper 932831, 1993, doi:10.4271/932831.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
If you need 5W performance, mixing two disparate 5Ws does not guarantee that you are getting it.
I see you're still bringing up this unsubstantiated claim.
Could you give us one proven example of two 5W oils that shouldn't be blended because the result will be a 10W oil?
It's an old reference and you may argue that it doesn't apply to todays oils. However, the following citation addresses Shannow's point without ambiguity.
Citation:
Rhodes, R., "Low-Temperature Compatibility of Engine Lubricants and the Risk of Engine Pumpability Failure," SAE Technical Paper 932831, 1993, doi:10.4271/932831.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
As Shannow also pointed out, that wouldnt be a concern in S. FLA. The discussion also being theoretical now since there's no need to mix after finding more EDGE. I will use the two qts of M1 as top off on another vehicle.
@wemay
I apologize for stealing your thread. You are, of course correct. I was responding to CATERHAM's suggestion that data do not exist for Shannow's point. I am guessing that my reference won't change CATERHAM's mind, but other readers may see that there is an actual history that suggests that you can't always predict the performance of a mix. Most of the time they are likely to fine.
I apologize for stealing your thread. You are, of course correct. I was responding to CATERHAM's suggestion that data do not exist for Shannow's point. I am guessing that my reference won't change CATERHAM's mind, but other readers may see that there is an actual history that suggests that you can't always predict the performance of a mix. Most of the time they are likely to fine.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: GMorg
@wemay
I apologize for stealing your thread. You are, of course correct. I was responding to CATERHAM's suggestion that data do not exist for Shannow's point. I am guessing that my reference won't change CATERHAM's mind, but other readers may see that there is an actual history that suggests that you can't always predict the performance of a mix. Most of the time they are likely to fine.
Hi GMorg, not an issue at all
@wemay
I apologize for stealing your thread. You are, of course correct. I was responding to CATERHAM's suggestion that data do not exist for Shannow's point. I am guessing that my reference won't change CATERHAM's mind, but other readers may see that there is an actual history that suggests that you can't always predict the performance of a mix. Most of the time they are likely to fine.
Hi GMorg, not an issue at all
Originally Posted By: GMorg
@wemay
I apologize for stealing your thread. You are, of course correct. I was responding to CATERHAM's suggestion that data do not exist for Shannow's point. I am guessing that my reference won't change CATERHAM's mind, but other readers may see that there is an actual history that suggests that you can't always predict the performance of a mix. Most of the time they are likely to fine.
I'm always interested in the facts which is why I've asked for an example of such an incompatibility with the latest currently available modern engine oils. The additives and formulations that were problematic in the past aren't used today and any new additive that a formulator may want to use is of course going to be tested to the nth degree.
Even when oils aren't being deliberately blended, blending is the reality through constant brand switching and topping up.
Compatibility is a big deal to a formulator particularly of a premium product which is why when asked they will go out of their way to assure that there will be no issues in blending their oil with any other commonly available approved brand.
As a result if you blend any two or more SN GF-5 5W-30 motor oils in any proportions you're still going to end up with a SN GF-5 5W-30. The OEMs aren't concerned about any potential incompatibility of blended approved oils and neither should our members be.
@wemay
I apologize for stealing your thread. You are, of course correct. I was responding to CATERHAM's suggestion that data do not exist for Shannow's point. I am guessing that my reference won't change CATERHAM's mind, but other readers may see that there is an actual history that suggests that you can't always predict the performance of a mix. Most of the time they are likely to fine.
I'm always interested in the facts which is why I've asked for an example of such an incompatibility with the latest currently available modern engine oils. The additives and formulations that were problematic in the past aren't used today and any new additive that a formulator may want to use is of course going to be tested to the nth degree.
Even when oils aren't being deliberately blended, blending is the reality through constant brand switching and topping up.
Compatibility is a big deal to a formulator particularly of a premium product which is why when asked they will go out of their way to assure that there will be no issues in blending their oil with any other commonly available approved brand.
As a result if you blend any two or more SN GF-5 5W-30 motor oils in any proportions you're still going to end up with a SN GF-5 5W-30. The OEMs aren't concerned about any potential incompatibility of blended approved oils and neither should our members be.
OK CATERHAM, here's the point in every thread that we have where I ask you to demonstrate that your posit of mixing Ws always gives you W...
got an PROOF of that ?
This is again when we start hearing crickets.
You have an assumption that it's correct, but have no evidence whatsoever that
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
if you blend any two or more SN GF-5 5W-30 motor oils in any proportions you're still going to end up with a SN GF-5 5W-30.
Demonstrate it.
edit...here's what GF8 says
Quote:
Homogeneity and Miscibility, ASTM D6922
Shall remain homogeneous and, when mixed with TMC reference oils, shall remain miscible.
http://www.gf-6.com/sites/default/files/03-ILSAC_gf-6b_2-13-14_draft_rev_10.pdf
No mention of performance retention...just stay mixed.
got an PROOF of that ?
This is again when we start hearing crickets.
You have an assumption that it's correct, but have no evidence whatsoever that
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
if you blend any two or more SN GF-5 5W-30 motor oils in any proportions you're still going to end up with a SN GF-5 5W-30.
Demonstrate it.
edit...here's what GF8 says
Quote:
Homogeneity and Miscibility, ASTM D6922
Shall remain homogeneous and, when mixed with TMC reference oils, shall remain miscible.
http://www.gf-6.com/sites/default/files/03-ILSAC_gf-6b_2-13-14_draft_rev_10.pdf
No mention of performance retention...just stay mixed.
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The discussion was covered extensively here
with certain claims being made as to what the mixing standard, and base oil interchangeability guidelines profferred.
Wemay, suggest you see what the oil companies, additive companies, and SAE/ASTM say about the testing requirements to "prove" a new blend.
with certain claims being made as to what the mixing standard, and base oil interchangeability guidelines profferred.
Wemay, suggest you see what the oil companies, additive companies, and SAE/ASTM say about the testing requirements to "prove" a new blend.
Being Edge is using a similar Infineum system, I'd say in this case it's ok. Of course all oils are compatible but that doesn't mean you should do it. It's not ideal. You're mixing different chemistry. Common sense and technical oil experts will tell you to try and run pure.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I understand your position Shannow and can see the logic following through. But to CATERHAM's point, when a normal Joe who doesn't have a sickness for all things oil like us, reads on the bottle/online 'compatible with all other oils', he isn't going to do the research that may yield the theoretical study results presented here. He's going read and understand that phrase to mean, "can mix". He will then pick up his oil and place it in the shopping cart next to the barbeque sauce, milk and never think twice. Nor does the vehicle's OM warn said Joe against mixing. It becomes sort of a non-starter argument to ask for proof of this.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: wemay
I understand your position Shannow and can see the logic following through. But to CATERHAM's point, when a normal Joe who doesn't have a sickness for all things oil like us, reads on the bottle/online 'compatible with all other oils', he isn't going to do the research that may yield the theoretical study results presented here. He's going read and understand that phrase to mean, "can mix". He will then pick up his oil and place it in the shopping cart next to the barbeque sauce, milk and never think twice. Nor does the vehicle's OM warn said Joe against mixing. It becomes sort of a non-starter argument to ask for proof of this.
Quite right. But this also assumes that Joe isn't playing backyard chemist and mixing various quantities of 0w-20 with 0w-40 to create a 0w-30 either. And when Joe goes to change his oil he's taking out oil A and putting in oil B. The miscibility stuff is more in respect to when Joe has to top up his oil that he can pick up 5w-30 type "C" and mix it with the sump of 5w-30 type "M" that he currently has and it isn't going to grenade his engine or turn into Campbell's Chunky. And that's what the protocol Shannow has referenced tests for.
So while it is wise to consider that Joe Blow isn't subject to the same schools of thought going on here, that very same point applies to the topic of blending as a whole as it exists on this board and the context of those discussions with reference to exactly who is doing it and what has been presented to support/condemn it. The miscibility standard exists as a way to confirm a person can mix A with B in a top-up situation and nothing bad is going to happen, it is not a free license to blend your own lubricant and assume you know the performance characteristics of the end product. That is Shannow's point, and one I agree with.
I understand your position Shannow and can see the logic following through. But to CATERHAM's point, when a normal Joe who doesn't have a sickness for all things oil like us, reads on the bottle/online 'compatible with all other oils', he isn't going to do the research that may yield the theoretical study results presented here. He's going read and understand that phrase to mean, "can mix". He will then pick up his oil and place it in the shopping cart next to the barbeque sauce, milk and never think twice. Nor does the vehicle's OM warn said Joe against mixing. It becomes sort of a non-starter argument to ask for proof of this.
Quite right. But this also assumes that Joe isn't playing backyard chemist and mixing various quantities of 0w-20 with 0w-40 to create a 0w-30 either. And when Joe goes to change his oil he's taking out oil A and putting in oil B. The miscibility stuff is more in respect to when Joe has to top up his oil that he can pick up 5w-30 type "C" and mix it with the sump of 5w-30 type "M" that he currently has and it isn't going to grenade his engine or turn into Campbell's Chunky. And that's what the protocol Shannow has referenced tests for.
So while it is wise to consider that Joe Blow isn't subject to the same schools of thought going on here, that very same point applies to the topic of blending as a whole as it exists on this board and the context of those discussions with reference to exactly who is doing it and what has been presented to support/condemn it. The miscibility standard exists as a way to confirm a person can mix A with B in a top-up situation and nothing bad is going to happen, it is not a free license to blend your own lubricant and assume you know the performance characteristics of the end product. That is Shannow's point, and one I agree with.
I appreciate you're not into blending but it is standard practice in some circles with the formulators encouragement.
This thread isn't about blending different grades so let's stay on topic.
This thread isn't about blending different grades so let's stay on topic.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I appreciate you're not into blending but it is standard practice in some circles with the formulators encouragement.
Redline I know encourages blending their own products to produce different grades. But that is the only situation I know of where a blender has actually encouraged it (rather than just saying it isn't going to hurt anything). And that is with their own products, not products from other blenders, which is the theme of this discussion (Edge and Mobil 1).
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
This thread isn't about blending different grades so let's stay on topic.
No, it isn't, but it certainly isn't taking off on any sort of detour or tangent to mention it either. It ties into the historical discussion of the subject, something that has already been brought into the mix here, so it is far from irrelevant despite being not exactly on topic.
I appreciate you're not into blending but it is standard practice in some circles with the formulators encouragement.
Redline I know encourages blending their own products to produce different grades. But that is the only situation I know of where a blender has actually encouraged it (rather than just saying it isn't going to hurt anything). And that is with their own products, not products from other blenders, which is the theme of this discussion (Edge and Mobil 1).
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
This thread isn't about blending different grades so let's stay on topic.
No, it isn't, but it certainly isn't taking off on any sort of detour or tangent to mention it either. It ties into the historical discussion of the subject, something that has already been brought into the mix here, so it is far from irrelevant despite being not exactly on topic.
Originally Posted By: wemay
I understand your position Shannow and can see the logic following through. But to CATERHAM's point, when a normal Joe who doesn't have a sickness for all things oil like us, reads on the bottle/online 'compatible with all other oils', he isn't going to do the research that may yield the theoretical study results presented here. He's going read and understand that phrase to mean, "can mix". He will then pick up his oil and place it in the shopping cart next to the barbeque sauce, milk and never think twice. Nor does the vehicle's OM warn said Joe against mixing. It becomes sort of a non-starter argument to ask for proof of this.
wemay, they are all compatible, to the point that nothing bad is going to happen...Joe will not waste an engine, I agree...
But nothing guarantees that the cold weather end of the oil, the "W" will remain in any mix...even the oil manufacturers have to retest that claim when they change basestocks in certain directions (like choosing a new GrIII)...Joe doesn not have certainty that if he NEEDS a 5W, he's actually got one...there's no test for that in any of the licencing.
As I previously stated, most people are operating in the "normal" operating range, and are unaffected by the extreme "W" end of the spectrum...you'll be fine.
I'll be fine...look at what's in my sig...I've never tested the extreme end of my blend because Oz is impossible ... I just can't claim that it's a "5W40", or that any blend similar IS a "5W"
I understand your position Shannow and can see the logic following through. But to CATERHAM's point, when a normal Joe who doesn't have a sickness for all things oil like us, reads on the bottle/online 'compatible with all other oils', he isn't going to do the research that may yield the theoretical study results presented here. He's going read and understand that phrase to mean, "can mix". He will then pick up his oil and place it in the shopping cart next to the barbeque sauce, milk and never think twice. Nor does the vehicle's OM warn said Joe against mixing. It becomes sort of a non-starter argument to ask for proof of this.
wemay, they are all compatible, to the point that nothing bad is going to happen...Joe will not waste an engine, I agree...
But nothing guarantees that the cold weather end of the oil, the "W" will remain in any mix...even the oil manufacturers have to retest that claim when they change basestocks in certain directions (like choosing a new GrIII)...Joe doesn not have certainty that if he NEEDS a 5W, he's actually got one...there's no test for that in any of the licencing.
As I previously stated, most people are operating in the "normal" operating range, and are unaffected by the extreme "W" end of the spectrum...you'll be fine.
I'll be fine...look at what's in my sig...I've never tested the extreme end of my blend because Oz is impossible ... I just can't claim that it's a "5W40", or that any blend similar IS a "5W"
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'll be fine...look at what's in my sig...I've never tested the extreme end of my blend because Oz is impossible ... I just can't claim that it's a "5W40", or that any blend similar IS a "5W"
Never even noticed. Lol.
I'll be fine...look at what's in my sig...I've never tested the extreme end of my blend because Oz is impossible ... I just can't claim that it's a "5W40", or that any blend similar IS a "5W"
Never even noticed. Lol.
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