Ecoboost UOA @ 40K miles, Mobil-1 at 4.9K miles.

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Aren't the additives depleted as the oil is in use, and one of the reasons why we change oil? There's always the possibility the report was screwed up, but additives do get used up during the life of the oil. The harder an engine is on oil they quicker the add pack will get used up.

You have 26,000 posts on bitog. You've seen how additives always stay in there, comparing a UOA to a VOA.
We even see how, for example, Ti stays in the sump from leftover from a previous oil, not the current oil.
So when you say "additives depleted", that really means molecules are oxidized or broken. That way the elements show up on a UOA to the end.

 

[CT8]

M1 AFE 0w-30?

 

[KCJeep]

Not a good showing for M1 here, but this engine is notoriously tough on oil. Castrol has posted some good ones though...

As for the additives, gotta be Blackstone you see it here all the time. UOA's posted that are about 25% light all across the board.

 

[GMZ]

The engine is beating up the oil, try M1 0W-40 or M1 TDT.

Blackstone UOAs are just fine, curious how many people have sent samples from the same OCI to each lab?

I have, here.

 

[tig1]

Excess fuel equals low flash point and shearing.

 

[Camprunner]

Stout 30's .... Chevron Delo XLE 10w30, Castrol Magnatec 10w30 or go with a 40 like Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol 0w40 and if it shears down to a 30 weight who cares you will still be fine.

 

[Onug]

Interesting numbers. I'm not an oil expert like most of the locals, but my first report with the same oil and engine is here.
Not sure about the catch can. Some claim it helps, other's say it doesn't. For all you know, your oil dilution could have been much higher without the can, so it might be working. The fuel has to stay in gas form for the catch can to work, so if it gets blended in with the oil it won't be filtered by the catch can.

The more I read about M1, the more I'm starting to think it's not the right oil for running the full oil change intervals on these engines. I've got some in right now and have one more case in the garage to use...then I'm swapping out for something else.

 

[edyvw]

Go to Wal MArt, get Castrol 0W40 and run that.
This is perfect example why ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils are perfect for Ecoboost engines.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Go to Wal MArt, get Castrol 0W40 and run that.
This is perfect example why ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils are perfect for Ecoboost engines.


I don't know if this Ecoboost is prone to LSPI, but it looks to me like that Castrol is in the calcium danger zone range going by the recent Infineum study.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3771745/Castrol_Edge_0W-40,_5,000_mile

http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/nov-2016/quenching-low-speed-pre-ignition

I hope that is the right Castrol 0W40, there are so many of them...anyway, it probably helps that it has a big dose of ZDDP by US standards, but I would still be wary of using it in my LSPI-prone DIT (I have proof, it was recalled for it!).
I am going with M1 5W30 ESP for my next change, as it has a near-40 level HTHS and low calcium, but also a low starting TBN and the CCS viscosity is just a tad high for my tastes. I am still looking for a 0/5W30/40 with low calcium, decent starting TBN, low NOACK, and CCS results that I like (any 0W would do)...DIT makes oil shopping so hard!!!

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Go to Wal MArt, get Castrol 0W40 and run that.
This is perfect example why ACEA A3/B3 B4 oils are perfect for Ecoboost engines.


I don't know if this Ecoboost is prone to LSPI, but it looks to me like that Castrol is in the calcium danger zone range going by the recent Infineum study.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3771745/Castrol_Edge_0W-40,_5,000_mile

http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/nov-2016/quenching-low-speed-pre-ignition

I hope that is the right Castrol 0W40, there are so many of them...anyway, it probably helps that it has a big dose of ZDDP by US standards, but I would still be wary of using it in my LSPI-prone DIT (I have proof, it was recalled for it!).
I am going with M1 5W30 ESP for my next change, as it has a near-40 level HTHS and low calcium, but also a low starting TBN and the CCS viscosity is just a tad high for my tastes. I am still looking for a 0/5W30/40 with low calcium, decent starting TBN, low NOACK, and CCS results that I like (any 0W would do)...DIT makes oil shopping so hard!!!


Not saying Mobil1 is a bad choice and calcium additives do seem to promote LSPI, but I'm not sure it matters much in making an oil choice.

LSPI is potentially catastrophic, not fully understood and can't be managed with knock sensors like traditional pre-ignition. Consequently, manufacturers identify high demand-low rpm situations where LSPI could occur and introduce overfueling (I'm imagining based on an algorithm using throttle position, rpm, manifold vacuum, turbocharger boost, etc.) at those points whether or not LSPI is actually occurring. So, by the time a DI engine is in the hands of the public, LSPI has been pretty much eliminated as a concern, regardless of what oil formulation is used. We see lots of EcoBoost engines here that are run on high calcium oils like Pennzoil and do just fine.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Danh

Not saying Mobil1 is a bad choice and calcium additives do seem to promote LSPI, but I'm not sure it matters much in making an oil choice.

LSPI is potentially catastrophic, not fully understood and can't be managed with knock sensors like traditional pre-ignition. Consequently, manufacturers identify high demand-low rpm situations where LSPI could occur and introduce overfueling (I'm imagining based on an algorithm using throttle position, rpm, manifold vacuum, turbocharger boost, etc.) at those points whether or not LSPI is actually occurring. So, by the time a DI engine is in the hands of the public, LSPI has been pretty much eliminated as a concern, regardless of what oil formulation is used. We see lots of EcoBoost engines here that are run on high calcium oils like Pennzoil and do just fine.


I'm guessing that Ford probably had a good handle on LSPI because I have not heard of Ecoboosts blowing up...but, my FXT had over 40kmiles on it when it was recalled for LSPI. Plenty of FXT/WRX owners had poor leakdown test results and/or severely damaged plugs and some of them got new engines out of it, others had carbon buildup issues that were likely not related to LSPI and got by with a top engine cleaning. We all got reprogrammed engines that are, hopefully, more LSPI-resistant, but some posters on subaruforester.org reported LSPI-like symptoms even after the recall.
There were also Hyundai Veloster Turbo owners who lost engines to LSPI, but that seems to have been addressed by software changes. Toyota formulated a special 0W20 with low calcium for their 2.0l DIT and the upcoming GF6 and next generation Dexos standards are supposed to include LSPI tests...given my experience and all this LSPI buzz, I am sticking with low calcium oils for my DIT. Yes, I am probably being overly cautious, but that is my nature.
The new question is, should I buy a ZDDP additive based on the Infineum results?
;^)

 

[timtrace]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Huge amount of shearing.

Why didn't you get TBN?


Is he shearing the reduced viscosity (SUS, cSt)?

Should I blow $ on a TBN at the next drain, or hold off another cycle as I'm likely changing oils based on the advice herein?

 

[timtrace]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
To timtrace - if you're towing with this engine, you NEED to run 91 or 93 octane. It won't have to overfuel as much to prevent detonation. You will see marginally better fuel economy and less fuel dilution.


My tow tunes are 93. I also run a 93 perf tune on summer blend as a daily driver. I have an 89 daily driver tune which I use with winter blend. When towing in winter, I try to time an empty tank and then run several gallons of 93-octane for the tow.

During the winter months I don't tow often at all, maybe once a month for ~100 miles RT.

Does this sound like an OK strategy?

 

[timtrace]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
How is fuel mileage? Wonder if you have high misfire count. I guess low tension rings and turbo = high fuel dilution. You getting engine hot enoughfor 20-40 mins at least a couple times a week?

Run a ACEA A3,B4 Mb229.5 Porsche C30 approval. M1 5w30 is not a synthetic oil. Don't mess around.


Fuel mileage is annoyingly low, usually in the 14.1 range.

Probably getting the engine hot enough averaged over a week. Definitely getting my foot in it a lot, too. That's a huge factor in fuel consumption, but it's worth it to me. One of the joys of this truck is it scoots like Mustangs were scooting 10 years ago.

There is some idling time in there, what effect is that having?

 

[timtrace]

Advice here seems to be split between M1 at 0W-40, maybe a different blend, or Castol Edge 0W-40. The point is, I think, to up the viscosity and let dilution run its course. Am I right?

Should I be concerned about stepping away from the OEM spec during the powertrain warranty? These engines occasionally have timing and phaser issues due to dilution, and I'm concerned about having to pay for a repair because the dealer found a different weight of oil in the pan.

Please forgive my ignorance, but if I drop to a 0W cold rating, will the oil have enough viscosity on cold starts to adequately protect the engine?

Thanks .....

 

[oil_film_movies]

timtrace, yes viscosity is still pretty high, higher even than what we really want ideally, using any 0WXX oil when cold. No oil on earth gets thinner when colder. The 0w only means it does as good as standards measure when very cold.

It's the perfect viscosity when 100 degrees and anything colder it is a little too thick.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Huge amount of shearing.

Why didn't you get TBN?
For a 5,000 mile oil change!!!

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
timtrace, yes viscosity is still pretty high, higher even than what we really want ideally, using any 0WXX oil when cold. No oil on earth gets thinner when colder. The 0w only means it does as good as standards measure when very cold.

It's the perfect viscosity when 100 degrees and anything colder it is a little too thick.
Really?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Really?


Yes, "Really". Try answering the OP's question instead of snarky crud.

Originally Posted By: timtrace
Please forgive my ignorance, but if I drop to a 0W cold rating, will the oil have enough viscosity on cold starts to adequately protect the engine? Thanks .....


No oil is too thin when cold.

 

[OVERKILL]

1. Given this is a Blackstone UOA, we know the fuel percentage is inaccurate and low.
2. Flashpoint deviation, when faced with a Blackstone UOA, is a much better indicator as to how much fuel is in the oil.
3. The virgin flashpoint of Mobil 1 5w-30 is 446F.

So, based on the above three points, we are seeing a flashpoint drop by almost 100F. This indicates significant fuel dilution, which explains most of the drop in viscosity. While there may be some mechanical shear, fuel is the primary driver here for viscosity loss.

If this bothers you, step up to a heavier oil. It will still dilute, you will still observe viscosity loss, but you'll have more reserve. Castrol's 0w-40 or 0w-30 or Mobil 1 0w-40 are all around the same visc, and not massively heavier than your ILSAC 5w-30.