Early transmission fluid change?

[SWHeat]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
If you're lazy, have no common sense, and don't have mechanical aptitude, then of course its a PITA.

Redline D6 is another option. Supertech DexronVI is if you're a rebel too. Amsoil might have a WS equivalent soon. And WS isn't too hard to find online or at the dealership.

I don't need ramps. My garage floor is level. I refill with a pint to a quart more then I drain out.
My last Toyota: pull drain plug(atf was hot), reinstall drain plug, pull fill plug, fill with equivalent amount plus a quart, take vehicle for ride, pan is similar temp as ATF, measure pan temp with IR, pull overflow plug, let excess drain out, reinstall overflow plug and be done. Also, haven't had any need to replace plug washers(use a torque wrench and most will last forever). Never had a plug leak either. Takes less then 30 minutes every time.

Dipstick requires ATF also to be at correct temp. Temp is often overlooked and is why many people with dipsticks have inaccurate ATF level. We call that user error. Many dipsticks have weird angular bends to them making them difficult to insert and some sticks pull ATF up into the tube so you get only 1 good reading. Easy to fill thru tube but requires extractor or 'loose' drainplug to drain when overfilled. And most ATF tubes fill slowly.

When it comes to accuracy, ATF temp is critical. This might be why some transmissions do not give braindead owners a dipstick to use. Automakers are trying to prevent owner errors. The removal of the dipstick isn't to save money. Its to prevent owner incompetence. Too many wannabee backyard hacks out there.


I have always respected your opinion re: ATF fluids and general transmission maintenance. However,your comments here are a bit over the top. PUH-lease, the ONLY reason for the dipstick-less transmissions is to boost dealership revenue. Sure, there are some clueless people out there. DIY "hacks" on this site are not in that category. Good for you that your truck is high enough to get under to do your quick and dirty procedure of overfill and then drain off the excess. How about doing that on a corolla/matrix/vibe? Suddenly, not so simple. It is stupid to not have a transmission dipstick. You remain correct re: checking at correct temps as always.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
If you're lazy, have no common sense, and don't have mechanical aptitude, then of course its a PITA.

Redline D6 is another option. Supertech DexronVI is if you're a rebel too. Amsoil might have a WS equivalent soon. And WS isn't too hard to find online or at the dealership.

I don't need ramps. My garage floor is level. I refill with a pint to a quart more then I drain out.
My last Toyota: pull drain plug(atf was hot), reinstall drain plug, pull fill plug, fill with equivalent amount plus a quart, take vehicle for ride, pan is similar temp as ATF, measure pan temp with IR, pull overflow plug, let excess drain out, reinstall overflow plug and be done. Also, haven't had any need to replace plug washers(use a torque wrench and most will last forever). Never had a plug leak either. Takes less then 30 minutes every time.

Dipstick requires ATF also to be at correct temp. Temp is often overlooked and is why many people with dipsticks have inaccurate ATF level. We call that user error. Many dipsticks have weird angular bends to them making them difficult to insert and some sticks pull ATF up into the tube so you get only 1 good reading. Easy to fill thru tube but requires extractor or 'loose' drainplug to drain when overfilled. And most ATF tubes fill slowly.

When it comes to accuracy, ATF temp is critical. This might be why some transmissions do not give braindead owners a dipstick to use. Automakers are trying to prevent owner errors. The removal of the dipstick isn't to save money. Its to prevent owner incompetence. Too many wannabee backyard hacks out there.


I'm not lazy, have quite a bit of common sense, and have been a mechanic for most of my life, and it's still a PITA to me.

Your garage floor is level? How does that benefit someone with a Corolla? Should they use 4 car ramps? LOLOL

My dipstick has both hot and cold marks on it. Have checked it both ways and it's right on the mark. Easy to see the red fluid on the stick.

Automakers are trying to prevent owner errors? That's absolutely laughable

Admit it, you got this one wrong.

 

[Smokescreen]

Unless you have a leak in a new vehicle it should have the correct amount of ATF in there. If you don't have a dipstick or if you do have a dipstick, if the dipstick shows that it is at the correct level (hot/cold whatever) why not just use the simple method of measuring the amount that comes out during a drain, and put the exact same amount of new stuff back in? That's how I am going to do my first 30,000km drain refill. I have done it this what on all my cars for years, no issues.

 

[exranger06]

I think it might be a little bit of both cost cutting and preventing owner screw-ups. Last week a guy came into the Napa I work at and asked where the trans dipstick on his Volvo was because he couldn't find it. I explained that it may just have a check plug. He wanted to buy a quart of trans fluid for it. (I'm not sure why, since he obviously didn't even check the fluid yet, but hey, whatever.) I don't know what kind of fluid Volvo's use. He had the owner's manual, but it just listed some cryptic part number used by dealers. I urged him to call the dealer or Swedish Performance, a local independent shop specializing in well, Swedish cars, to confirm what type of fluid it uses. Our computer said it uses Dex III, which I'm 99% sure is wrong. (Any time a vehicle requires a special fluid we don't offer, the computer usually defaults to Dex III.

--it also lists Dexcool for all import vehicles

) I explained this, but the guy still insisted on walking out the door with a quart of Dex III.

Perfect example of clueless owner messing with things he shouldn't be messing with.

 

[novaracer69]

beeing a gm powertrain employe i say change it out early. there are bushing and bearings that are breaking in and the ears of the clutches breaking in aginst the housings. change it out early and be safe.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Having done several flushes on these trucks since originally doing mine, I can say that 30K is about the perfect time to change the WS. So far the D6 has been a great fluid. My application differs from most in that I installed a Amsoil transmission Bypass filter so my fluid will remain clean for a long long time. I plan to perform a UOA just for [censored] and grins as mileage accumulates.

As far as checking the temp with an IR gun goes I have seen differences in temp between the trans temp sensor and a IR reading. My trans was a bit underfilled from the last fluid change which resulted in zero issues.I filled it to spec this time. To each his own I suppose. I will stick to what is proven.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

I'm all for periodic transmission oils changes since it gives me something to do and makes me feel better, but from an engineering perspective I can see that transmission manufacturer's see an advantage to offering car makers a "maintenance-free" product that still has the required service life.

It all about minimizing cost, and that includes warranty costs from owner stuff-ups and not having to provide for, document, and be liable for the use of a dipstick by the owner.

As for the general cleanliness of the oil, I have to grin a bit at the obsession with filtering. The oil is primarily used for cooling the torque converter, secondarily for lubrication, and thirdly for hydraulic control. What we refer to as a "filter" is plenty often just a fine screen, sufficient for the cooling and even lubrication functions. The tranny doesn't use engine-style pressure-feed journal bearings which are very sensitive to fine particles, just rolling element bearings which can happily run over a particle or two. Just ask the differential.

If you put an aftermarket filter in the cooler line it is essential that it does not affect the flow, and therefore oil temperature extremes. Note that the Magnefine is 25 micron, not exactly "fine," but coarse enough to still help yet avoid liability issues.

The few valve body schematics I've looked at show a small button filter to keep out the particles that get through the screen - simply good hydraulic design practice and so surprise at all.

The biggest killer is heat and it takes only three minutes of transmission misuse to damage the oil. Damaged oil will get through any filter and wreak havoc throughout.

 

[bmwtechguy]

I like to wait until the powertrain warranty is out to service the transmission. The manufacturer owns the repair of that unit until then, should it malfunction. I will service it if the severe service interval comes up before the warranty is out.

I think that adding both an aux cooler and cooler line filter asap would be to your advantage for long trans life. With the truck so new, I would try to put the filter in before the coolers in the flow path. I always install the aux cooler after the radiator cooler in the flow path, same as oem configuration.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

A bypass plumbed across the cooler circuit is not introducing a "affect upon flow". It is merely borrowing fluid from the cooler to drive the dense bypass filter. As far as my "obsession with filtering", I'm not gonna lie that made me laugh, there are several domcuments on the web illustrating the importance of transmission cleanliness. I want the best for my transmission and after having these units on two vehicles, one with several thousand miles I can say I am very impressed thus far.

Your arguement regarding an engine is laughable. Transmissions should benefit more in some ways considering planetary style gears, cluches, bands and on and on. With proper cooling a good quality ATF extreme temps will most likely not be an issue.

I realize heat kills transmissions. If the fluid is in good condition and is kept clean you are covering all of your bases. More wear usually equals more heat generated. To what level does an ATF have to be filtered to? Your guess is as good as mine. I have had good luck with my anal retentive practices and will continue them as long as they work in my application.

 

[PT1]

I have 3 Toyotas 2 of them have sealed transmissions. They require WS fluid. I have surveyed 5 dealers and they recommend doing a flush at 50k. They do the fluid level check using their scan tool and the internal trans temp sensors which are accurate.

However, if you want to do a drain fill they said to drain fluid and carefully measure what comes out. Refill with exact amount plus 200ml extra.

On my T4R the fill hole is on the side of the trans which is a PIA to get to. So, I'll have the delaer flush at 50k. On the Lexus the fill hole is easiy accessable from the engine compartment so I will do 4 drain fills at 50k and a dealer flush at 100k.

The Rav4 with the dipstick will get a drain fill every 20k.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
take vehicle for ride, pan is similar temp as ATF, measure pan temp with IR, pull overflow plug, let excess drain out, reinstall overflow plug and be done. Also, haven't had any need to replace plug washers(use a torque wrench and most will last forever). Never had a plug leak either. Takes less then 30 minutes every time.



Undummy, what kind of IR gun do you use? What temp readings do you get when the temp is correct for the Toy WS ATF refill measurement?

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Are you considering the use of an IR gun to check your transmission temps during a change? If so you will not get an accurate reading. Been there done that. If you do it yourself just jumper the DLC. Thats the only way to assure the trans is between 46C-56C besides having a expensive scan tool.

 

[MisterBen]

I picked up a Hayden 678 stacked-plate tranny cooler last night and I plan to install it this weekend. I would probably do it today, but it is raining and I need to pick up some WS fluid.

Depending how it goes, I might just take it by the dealer afterwards and have them check the level.

I'll change the first fluid at 30k, and depending on what it looks like go for 30-50k. These days I don't drive a lot (generally 5k or so per year), so I might go the shorter interval for time's sake.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79

More wear usually equals more heat generated.


Hmm, I actually wasn't addressing you in particular with my post but since you brought it up, where did you extract this little pearl of wisdom from?

 

[AzFireGuy79]

That "Pearl of wisdom" comes from common sense. And it was related to a worn out or contaminated ATF producing higher temps in an automatic transmission. Are we crystal?