Driving Aides

Messages
918
Location
PA
Pet peive of mine. I dislike anti-lock brakes. Even more than that I HATE traction control, especially when U push the off button and it doesn't turn all the way OFF! My opinion is that we (I) don't need them. Worse yet, it's hard or impossible to buy a car/truck now that doesn't have this stuff on there. What are your thoughts?
 
Messages
40,842
Location
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: ridgerunner
Worse yet, it's hard or impossible to buy a car/truck now that doesn't have this stuff on there.
That's true. ABS has been mandatory on all new cars for quite some time now, and if I'm not mistaken, stability control is now, too. Personally, I don't dislike it so much. I think these are helpful features for the majority of the driving population. Stability control does come in handy during winter on an RWD car. I do turn it off on mine sometimes, though. smile
 
Messages
11,196
Location
NY Capital District
Originally Posted By: ridgerunner
Pet peive of mine. I dislike anti-lock brakes. Even more than that I HATE traction control, especially when U push the off button and it doesn't turn all the way OFF! My opinion is that we (I) don't need them. Worse yet, it's hard or impossible to buy a car/truck now that doesn't have this stuff on there. What are your thoughts?
And you hate it why? Because it helps save lives? It is selfish to say that just because YOU don't "need" them, nobody should have them. I want you to tell me WHY ABS is bad. You are telling me that in a panic stop scenario, you remember to pump the brakes ? If you answer yes to this, you are full of it. In snow, ABS can actuate much faster than any human foot can. And yet it's still "Evil". Traction control is great. Why? Because it helps STOP WHEELSPIN, In snow, most modern TC systems cut power, and apply brakes on the spinning wheel, to force torque to the other driven wheel. This is bad, why? Because it's useful? can you selectively apply brakes to increase traction? No? I thought not. If you don't want ABS or traction control, buy a car from the 80s. Because 98% of the population is glad for ABS, TC, SC. And I'm one of the 98%.
 
Messages
36,528
Location
ME
This comes up time and again. ABS keeps you from plowing snow with locked tires; the friction of plowing snow helps you stop better than an on-again, off-again tire. It's also disconcerting going down a snowy hill with ABS engaged for 10+ seconds; on some designs the pedal slowly sinks to the floor as they assume you should stop within that time window. As for traction control, I would rather hear/feel a tire spinning in the rain than have a yellow light flash on the dash that I may or may not see, and if I see it, I will probably become distracted. When I drive in inclement weather I'll "test" traction with a carefully timed goose of the gas or brake, and am satisfied by the natural result.
 
Messages
4,021
Location
New England
Mark me in the "not a fan of ABS or stability control" category. It's funny, I've had hairy experiences on dirt/snow roads with ABS vehicles, but never on those without it. I'm very glad my DD does not have ABS.
 
Messages
3,252
Location
Florida
I don't have snow. Never have liked ABS or traction control either. Nor do I like power brakes. I do, however, enjoy power steering.
 
Messages
6,367
Location
Midwest
They don't bother me for the most part. I've always felt that if your driving skills are so impaired that you rely on aids, or if you actually rely on "the friction of plowing snow" to aid your stopping in inclement weather, then you don't have any business driving in the first place. Common sense and slowing down in bad weather trumps all the aids and "snow plow friction" fallacies any day.
 
Messages
11,196
Location
NY Capital District
Originally Posted By: eljefino
This comes up time and again. ABS keeps you from plowing snow with locked tires; the friction of plowing snow helps you stop better than an on-again, off-again tire. It's also disconcerting going down a snowy hill with ABS engaged for 10+ seconds; on some designs the pedal slowly sinks to the floor as they assume you should stop within that time window. As for traction control, I would rather hear/feel a tire spinning in the rain than have a yellow light flash on the dash that I may or may not see, and if I see it, I will probably become distracted. When I drive in inclement weather I'll "test" traction with a carefully timed goose of the gas or brake, and am satisfied by the natural result.
This may be true- BUT (and this is a big but) you have ZERO control with locked front wheels.
 
Messages
4,021
Location
New England
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
They don't bother me for the most part. I've always felt that if your driving skills are so impaired that you rely on aids, or if you actually rely on "the friction of plowing snow" to aid your stopping in inclement weather, then you don't have any business driving in the first place. Common sense and slowing down in bad weather trumps all the aids and "snow plow friction" fallacies any day.
The same could be said for the role of ABS which is "I'll just stomp on the pedal as hard as I can, close my eyes, and hope for the best". Easy enough to modulate a pedal on the verge of lockup for effective braking.
 
Messages
8,051
Location
Michigan
I don't think traction and stability control systems are mandated by NHTSA in cars yet, but they will be in a few years. ABS has been mandated for a long time. The way things are going, an 8-year old will be able to get in a car, enter a destination into the GPS system, and the car will autonomously drive there. Competent driving will become a thing of the past.
 
Messages
11,196
Location
NY Capital District
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I don't think traction and stability control systems are mandated by NHTSA in cars yet, but they will be in a few years. ABS has been mandated for a long time. The way things are going, an 8-year old will be able to get in a car, enter a destination into the GPS system, and the car will autonomously drive there. Competent driving will become a thing of the past.
Anyone who thinks that people used to be better drivers are fooling themselves. Even my grandparents acknowledge this, that drivers today are just as bad as they were in the 50s, 60s. But, despite there being millions more on the roads, driving more and more, fatalities are dropping like a rock. why is this? Driver aids, and safer cars, more airbags, etc.
 
Messages
4,021
Location
New England
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I don't think traction and stability control systems are mandated by NHTSA in cars yet, but they will be in a few years. ABS has been mandated for a long time. The way things are going, an 8-year old will be able to get in a car, enter a destination into the GPS system, and the car will autonomously drive there. Competent driving will become a thing of the past.
Anyone who thinks that people used to be better drivers are fooling themselves. Even my grandparents acknowledge this, that drivers today are just as bad as they were in the 50s, 60s. But, despite there being millions more on the roads, driving more and more, fatalities are dropping like a rock. why is this? Driver aids, and safer cars, more airbags, etc.
For every electronic nanny invented, people just get sloppier and sloppier. Look at lane departure and distance systems. Now you can text away and your car will let you know if you're about to rear-end the car in front or drift into the median.
 
Messages
11,196
Location
NY Capital District
Originally Posted By: cchase
For every electronic nanny invented, people just get sloppier and sloppier. Look at lane departure and distance systems. Now you can text away and your car will let you know if you're about to rear-end the car in front or drift into the median.
Yet fewer and fewer people die in crashes every year. Hmmmm.
 

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Messages
46,229
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: cchase
For every electronic nanny invented, people just get sloppier and sloppier. Look at lane departure and distance systems. Now you can text away and your car will let you know if you're about to rear-end the car in front or drift into the median.
Oh, I think people are getting sloppier and heavier anyway.... And it has nothing to do with cars. The "Walmartization" of society. Supersize me! Give me two Big Mac's and an eclair, STAT! Then I'm going to jiggle, err, I mean "walk" down to Walmart and buy $300.00 of useless Chinese [censored] that I don't need, half of which is going to be broken by the weekend. The rent can wait, I gotta SHOP! *cue obese "thug" doing some sort of gang sign in front of Walmart*
 
Messages
4,021
Location
New England
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: cchase
For every electronic nanny invented, people just get sloppier and sloppier. Look at lane departure and distance systems. Now you can text away and your car will let you know if you're about to rear-end the car in front or drift into the median.
Yet fewer and fewer people die in crashes every year. Hmmmm.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. That people should be allowed to ignore the task at hand and depend on government mandates to keep them safe?
 
Messages
2,750
Location
Rochester, NY
I absolutely can't stand traction control, stability control, etc. Not because it's never helpful, but because it often fights what I'm trying to do (I've had friends get stuck in the snow and not be able to get the car to move, but by turning off TC, they were able to drive it out with a little wheelspin and effort). To avoid wheelspin, I'd much rather have a limited slip diff than the idiotic idea of applying the brakes on one side to make the other side get power. Plus, the car cutting the throttle is just annoying, and could be dangerous. For example: if I take off quickly in the rain, I often spin the back tires a little across a stop line. If the thing cut the power every time this happened, I would be incredibly annoyed! ABS isn't so bad. The system on my Jeep is pretty good, so I don't find it terribly intrusive. I have thought about adding a kill switch for those few times I want to be sure it won't engage.
 
Messages
464
Location
CT
Originally Posted By: ridgerunner
... I dislike anti-lock brakes. Even more than that I HATE traction control, especially when U push the off button and it doesn't turn all the way OFF! ... Worse yet, it's hard or impossible to buy a car/truck now that doesn't have this stuff on there.
Absolute nonsense. No-one is forcing you to own a vehicle with ABS/traction control. You can buy any used car/truck made before 1990 that does not have ABS/traction control. Or, you can just pull out the ABS/traction control fuse. Problem solved.
 
Messages
11,196
Location
NY Capital District
Of course not. It's not like the car is driving for them. They still have to pay attention, use turn signals, stuff like that. But we are talking about ABS, and TC. ABS allows for faster stopping distances, dry wet or snowy. It also allows you to retain control in panic stop scenarios. Locked front wheels means zero control, just plow straight ahead. TC helps prevent wheelspin, by acting as a makeshift limited slip diff, using the brakes. People don't complain about limited slip diffs, so why complain about TC? Driver aids are exactly that- aids. The person behind the wheel is still responsible for the car. Some people are idiots and text, apply makeup, whatever while driving. Not having ABS/TC isn't going to change that. It's the same with safety features. People complain that airbags and stronger cars are making them heavier. Well, they also mean that when your kid is in the backseat, and you are t-boned by joe blow texting while eating a doughnut, s/he survives. But some people will still complain, wishing all cars had the impact properties of chinese cars, which accordian like they are made of tinfoil.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: eljefino
This comes up time and again. ABS keeps you from plowing snow with locked tires; the friction of plowing snow helps you stop better than an on-again, off-again tire. It's also disconcerting going down a snowy hill with ABS engaged for 10+ seconds; on some designs the pedal slowly sinks to the floor as they assume you should stop within that time window. As for traction control, I would rather hear/feel a tire spinning in the rain than have a yellow light flash on the dash that I may or may not see, and if I see it, I will probably become distracted. When I drive in inclement weather I'll "test" traction with a carefully timed goose of the gas or brake, and am satisfied by the natural result.
This may be true- BUT (and this is a big but) you have ZERO control with locked front wheels.
That's why when you turn, your foot should be off the brake pedal and yes I do pump the brake pedal whenerver I loose traction and the situation needs it, I don't have to remember it though because it is second nature by now. You know, those empty parking lots during snow storms can be very useful training ground for winter driving wink
 
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