Drained 02 honda civic ex tranny factory fill, filled with redline mtl

[HOndaGuy]

Guys. Thanks for all the advice. Everything went well(cept for the siphon pump, that pos was defective, so I just used an oil extractor. As far as shifting goes, my shifting is 100% better than it was with the factory fill. As far as what color it was draining, it looked brand new?????(over 25000 miles, and it still looks new, im pretty amazed). Anyway, shifting is improved. I would definitely recommend redline mtl in a honda tranny.


Aaron

 

[HOndaGuy]

So, today I took the civic to work, and I can get in gear much easier without it being notchy on me. Again, if you want a fluid that is better then the honda oem stuff, pick up redline mtl.

 

[Hankrr]

Thanks for the report & glad to hear it's working well.

I too prefer synthetic transmission fluid even though mine is an automatic.

 

[Bror Jace]

" ... I can get in gear much easier without it being notchy on me. Again, if you want a fluid that is better then the Honda OEM stuff, pick up Red Line MTL."

You'll see an even bigger difference in the winter.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Logik]

Sometimes I question the validity of statements like these. You said you had your old fluid in for twenty five thousand miles. That's a lot of miles, a couple years old fluid. The shifter feel on a fluid change at 25,000 miles will always improve after the new fluid is put in, regardless of whether it is Honda MTF or Redline MTL. The question is: would you have gotten the same result by putting new Honda MTF in?

I'd love to see a test where they did a blind test with a driver to see if brand new Honda MTF and brand new Redline MTL had a noticable difference. I think the large difference lies in the fact that it is virgin fluid. I use Honda MTF in my 01 Integra-R, and I'd have to hear quite a few convincing arguments to do otherwise.

 

[theguru]

I have seen quite a few reports of better changes with RL. I have changed 2 cars myself and also seen an improvement. One car with only 2,oookm on it.

 

[Whimsey]

I seem to remember that Honda's manual trannies used motor oil, 5W-30/10w-30 I believe, before they came out with their "special" manual tranny fluid. I wonder how different this "special" fluid is from the 5W-30/10W-30 motor oil. Did they change the syncro materials and need a different fluid? I believe this fluid can also be used in older manual trannies that used the 5W-30/10W-30. I think the Redline MTL viscosity is in the 30 weight catagory so unless there is a metallurgical problem the Redline should be fine. Anyway I'd love to have a Honda quality manual tranny in my Fords

.

Whimsey

 

[rpn453]

quote:

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Originally posted by Logik:
I think the large difference lies in the fact that it is virgin fluid. I use Honda MTF in my 01 Integra-R, and I'd have to hear quite a few convincing arguments to do otherwise.

---

Not always.
My buddy put 75W-90 GL-5 Mobil 1 oil in his '89 Corolla and didn't like the shifting quality, so he changed to a cheap dino gear oil a couple of months later. It got so thick in the winter (-40C) that he had to go back to a synthetic right away, so he tried Redline and now wouldn't even consider using anything else.
Another friend recently switched his factory fill in a new 6 spd Cummins to Redline at under 10,000km and couldn't tell any difference in shift quality. The factory fill was supposed to be synthetic, so there probably won't be much difference in winter either. He wanted to do an early fluid change on everything anyway.
Bottom line: there are differences between shift quality of certain oils in a specific vehicle, but if the Honda MTF is working good for you I see no reason to switch.

 

[Bror Jace]

Logik, like others here, I've gone from fresh other fluids (Mobil 1) to Red Line MTL and noticed a tremendous difference.

But no, I've never tried fresh Honda MTF againts Red Line MTL.

And 25,000 miles for a drain interval on a tranny fluid is rather short. At one time, the factory recommended drain interval for Honda MTF was soemthing like 90,000 miles.

Whimsey: "... before they came out with their 'special' manual tranny fluid. I wonder how different this 'special' fluid is from the 5W-30/10W-30 motor oil. Did they change the syncro materials and need a different fluid?"

I'm pretty sure what was driving the switch was the reduction in zinc-phosphorous barrier additives. The newer oils were increasingly unable to properly protect synchromeshed gears.

There might also have been a secondary issue with synchro wear/engagement where the motor oils were coming out with increasingly slippery formulas which made for less-than-ideal synchro engagement.

I've found that the synchros are a weak link in an aggressively-driven Honda car.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Storm897]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bror Jace:
And 25,000 miles for a drain interval on a tranny fluid is rather short. At one time, the factory recommended drain interval for Honda MTF was soemthing like 90,000 miles.

--- Bror Jace [/QB]

---

In my 2001 Honda Civic EX it recomends 60k changes. Currently flushing tranny now with autorx.

 

[joee12]

Here is a UOA of Honda's MTF. Analysis performed by ANA labs.
1996 Acura Integra LS 1.8DOHC
82093 Miles on Vehicle
21650 Miles on fluid

VOA/UOA both by ANA
Titanium -0/0
Silver - 0/0
Copper - 0/4
Lead - 0/12
Tin - 0/8
Aluminum - 0/8
Nickel - 0/0
Iron - 0/51
Chromium - 0/0
Sodium - 0/0
Boron - 1/1
Silicon - 0/5
Water - 0/0
Soot - 0/0
Glycol - 0/0

Moly - 0/0
Magnesium - 11/45
Calcium - 2652/3353
Barium - 0/0
Phosphorous - 1401/1910
Zinc -1564/2400
Visc@100C - 11.26/6.63
Tan mg/g - 0.30/4.00

Acura recommends 30,000 mile changes

Look how bad the oil thinned in just 22,000 miles. Since I have about 4 quarts left I will change the oil every 20,000 and then switch to the Redline. It is very easy to change, I do it when I have the car on the rack during an oil change. I feel that when it comes to transmissions and differentials, you might as well run synthetic. Syn gear and tranny oils are usually twice the cost of dino tranny and gear lubes, so it makes sense, if you are going to change at 50,000 mile intervals, Joe

 

[FL-400S]

So Red Line smokes Mobil 1 in manual trannies? My tercel takes 3 qts of 75W90. Ive got ST with AutoRx in it now, but going to syn after. Ive got the Mobil 1 ready in the garage, but if red line is better, should I get that? I need MT-90 since its a toyota, right?

 

[Dave75]

Honda Civic's specs GL4, that's why it's mainly a Redline (GL4) discussion and not Mobil (GL5).

My notchy/crunchy 2nd gear 6-speed RSX calls for Honda MTF with 10W30/10W40 as temporary substitues. I switched over to Redline MTL/MT-90 mix over the weekend at 17k KM and notice significant improvements. No more 2nd gear synchro crunching and shifting is more fluid!

BTW, the drained OEM fluid is opaque black. I don't know how it's supposed to look like though. The Redlines are transparent red/golden coloured.

 

[Fred Bear]

My 97 Accord loves the Honda MTF. I have tried Redline, M1 5W-30, and Royal Purple MTF. The OEM fluid “feels” better, and the notchy shifting is gone. I have no technical data to prove my point, just my opinion… Honda MTF is all I will use in it now.

 

[HOndaGuy]

UPDATED:

Shifting is like butter now, I can slam it in gear so easy, not even notchy at all. Ill update when the real cold comes(only been lower 40s, couple 30 days)

 

[JohnBrowning]

Transmissions' are picky about what fluid they like. I have put in M1 brand newinto transmissions and not liked how it shifted at all. I think that the fluids Cf is as important as anyting else in how it performs. The fact that it is new should have very little to do with it. My transmission has 8000 miles on the RP MaxGear I put in it and I can not tell any difference in it from when I first put it in. I can also tell you that with a total of 18,000 miles on it it is less notch and much quiter with this fill init then when it was Brand new and only had 4 miles on it's OEM fluid.

My point is that just because the fluid is new is no gurantee that it is going to work well in a transmission.

 

[MaximaGuy]

I totally agree with JohnBrowning.

I filled in M1 syn into my tranny and it was hot and shifted like one digging thro mud. I am glad Iam back to dino Chevron Dexron ATF + Lubegard black and my tranny shifts like there are no gears.....

 

[trey]

I also have redline for my civic on the way. and a case of amsoil thats going in my max soon. My mechanic is letting his flushing machine drain down so he can put in my amsoil stuff for the flush.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Assumeing the fluid you are useing is pumpable by the transmission, has the right Cf for good syncro engaugement adn has the needed EP/AW chemistry everything else is just dogma! USe what works!

 

[Logik]

I have a spare bottle of Auto-RX, so I guess I'll take the plunge too. I'll throw in the Auto-RX and when its time to change I'll use Redline. I'll let you guys know how it ends up.

Going from ~10,000 mile old Honda MTL to Redline after a Auto-RX flush. Maybe this will be good for my Torsen LSD too.