Drain time, PPM of each drop?

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In the quest for cleaner oil and engine life I'm trying to determine the parts per million of dirty oil and using "fuzzy" math I'm looking for a challenge to my answer. Various searches indicate that there is approx. 680 drops of oil to an oz. ? So 680 X 32 X 5 = 108,800 drops in a 5 qt. system. So this leads me to 9.19 PPM of " dirty oil in each drop, is this correct? If so I think having an extra Lager during drain time may well be worth it as in the semi-conductor world PPMs over 1 may sometimes be intolerable ?
 
I would not lose sleep over this one.

Longer drain won't make a difference because you haven't measured how much oil is still in the engine versus how much extra you got out.
 
Not sure why you are concerned about the ppms of dirty oil transferred to the fresh oil. I would think the concern would be in the ppms of dirty oil contaminates transferred to the new oil.

For example, if the dirty oil you are draining contains say 25 ppms of iron, each ounce left behind would transfer only 0.16 ppms of iron to the new oil in a 5 qt system. You would need to leave over 6 ounces of dirty oil behind to add just 1 ppm of iron to the new oil.

As another example, if the dirty oil you are changing has 3,000 ppms of Calcium and the new oil only has 2,000 ppms of Calcium, each ounce of dirty oil left behind adds only 6 ppms of Calcium to the new oil.

These tiny cross contaminations are well below the test method reproducibility for measuring the wear and additive metals, and therefore are negligible.

Tom NJ
 
Originally Posted By: H2GURU
In the quest for cleaner oil and engine life I'm trying to determine the parts per million of dirty oil and using "fuzzy" math I'm looking for a challenge to my answer. Various searches indicate that there is approx. 680 drops of oil to an oz. ? So 680 X 32 X 5 = 108,800 drops in a 5 qt. system. So this leads me to 9.19 PPM of " dirty oil in each drop, is this correct? If so I think having an extra Lager during drain time may well be worth it as in the semi-conductor world PPMs over 1 may sometimes be intolerable ?


You have just won THE GRAND PRIZE for oil obsession!
lol.gif
 
How about the guys that use the filters for 2 OCI's and don't drain the filter becasuse they're afraid of leaks? I'd be more concerned about that, than leaving 6 ounces of dirty oil in the sump.
 
The amount of new/fresh oil into the sump will over play any oil left in the engine even combined with oil left in the filter so much that it would not give any type of gain by getting every last drop out. Two things come to mind by this, when doing a UOA when makeup oil is added it skews the results, and manufactures would be all over this by recommending a filter change at every OCI compared to every other OCI. That's just my opinion... and sticking to it= can't loose any more sleep, nor take any more medication because of oil
 
There is a whole lot more oil left in the engine even after the drips have stopped. If it's a OHC engine there are little tubs of oil that the cam lobes dip into, lifters still full of oil etc.
 
Originally Posted By: H2GURU
In the quest for cleaner oil and engine life I'm trying to determine the parts per million of dirty oil and using "fuzzy" math I'm looking for a challenge to my answer. Various searches indicate that there is approx. 680 drops of oil to an oz. ? So 680 X 32 X 5 = 108,800 drops in a 5 qt. system. So this leads me to 9.19 PPM of " dirty oil in each drop, is this correct? If so I think having an extra Lager during drain time may well be worth it as in the semi-conductor world PPMs over 1 may sometimes be intolerable ?


Take 2 paxil and call me in the morning....
crazy2.gif
 
Totally
32.gif
....and it's a slow day - NAPA didn't have my boiler fuel filters and they wanted LIST PRICE
mad.gif
so I didn't get them.


The math aside ...I think we need a new "fuzzy statistic" here on BITOG.

Hot oil drain time indexed for temp and alleged sump size. Now admittedly, we'll have a few members without IR gun temp indicators or on board oil temp gauges ..but what can you do?
21.gif
That's why it will be a "fuzzy" statistic.

We can then praise our favorite oil for either its high or low drain rate based on if we perceive one or the other as favorable.

Things like:

"My M1 5w-X drained out in 3 minutes from the plug removal to dripping at a rate of minute."

This would be the comment if one wanted to bolster the "better flow" characteristics.

OTOH one might say

"My Amsoil 5w-X took 7 minute from plug removal to dripping at a rate of minute".

This would be the comment if one wanted to bolster the notion of "clinging to parts better".

Fans of either could then counter the perceived feature/characteristic with arguments that the other didn't cling to parts ..or left more contaminated oil within the engine.
 
I wouldn't sweat that last drop of used oil too much, however I think it is an excellent idea to drain your oil after the engine is hot and up to temperature. I usually drain mine when I get home from a 30+ minute drive. I usually just keep an eye on when change time is coming up and when I've been on a trip around town for a while running errands or whatever I'll pull into the garage and pull the drain plug when I get back home. I may use the time when the oil is draining to check other fluid levels and inspect drive belts and generally just do other routine inspections. By the time I crawl back under the car the oil may be dripping once a minute or so.

Look at it this way, before you pulled the drain plug your engine was full of that used oil you're worrying about. If a few parts per million of used oil was such a hazard to your engine, then it would explode when the engine was 100% full of the stuff mere moments before.
 
In some really small amount ..unless the engine has been opened up and cleaned ..there's some of the original factory fill in there. It's probably at a fraction of a drop ..but it has to be there.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Totally
32.gif
....and it's a slow day - NAPA didn't have my boiler fuel filters and they wanted LIST PRICE
mad.gif
so I didn't get them.


The math aside ...I think we need a new "fuzzy statistic" here on BITOG.

Hot oil drain time indexed for temp and alleged sump size. Now admittedly, we'll have a few members without IR gun temp indicators or on board oil temp gauges ..but what can you do?
21.gif
That's why it will be a "fuzzy" statistic.

We can then praise our favorite oil for either its high or low drain rate based on if we perceive one or the other as favorable.

Things like:

"My M1 5w-X drained out in 3 minutes from the plug removal to dripping at a rate of minute."

This would be the comment if one wanted to bolster the "better flow" characteristics.

OTOH one might say

"My Amsoil 5w-X took 7 minute from plug removal to dripping at a rate of minute".

This would be the comment if one wanted to bolster the notion of "clinging to parts better".

Fans of either could then counter the perceived feature/characteristic with arguments that the other didn't cling to parts ..or left more contaminated oil within the engine.



What about the skewed data from those with fumoto valves.....
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: engineerscott
Look at it this way, before you pulled the drain plug your engine was full of that used oil you're worrying about. If a few parts per million of used oil was such a hazard to your engine, then it would explode when the engine was 100% full of the stuff mere moments before.




Yeah but what if you pulled the drain plug 4 nano seconds before the explosion thereby averting total disaster...
 
Then you either add or detract for the "Fumoto Advantage" (gosh- what an ad slogan - think ZMax type hype - add echo with slight reverb) depending on how much better the oil performed based on the same factors.
 
H2Guru -

Some figures are missing from your post, like how much oil remains, how 'dirty' it was, etc..
And where did that 9.19 come from?
You did not state an objective or reason .
 
The 9.19 came from...1,000,000 drops (seeking a PPM reference here) divided by the 108,800 drops in a 5 qt. system??
 
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