Drag Racing - wear on engine?

[jsharp]

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Originally posted by Patman:

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Originally posted by buster:

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I've been drag racing for over 25 years 1/2 of that with a all out race car(10 sec Dodge Demon with 440 Mopar power)and all I've bben using is Quaker State oil,was using 30wt,but this new engine gets 10w40.My engines usually last 6 years,and I've never lost one,just go thru them when the compression starts to go

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It just proves that an engine will rarely fail do to oil. Whether you use Mobil 1, Redline or Amsoil, it isn't going to make your engine last longer. As you experienced, QS 30wt did just fine.

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An engine may not completely fail due to the oil, but I guarantee you that choosing the wrong viscosity, or a brand that doesn't protect as well, will shorten it's life. I know a lot of mechanics on here might not trust UOAs, but to me, if I used one oil and consistently saw wear numbers of 3ppm/1000 miles (for iron, lead, aluminum) then it would not last as long as if I used an oil that consistently showed wear numbers of 2ppm/1000 miles.

In his case, the compression on his engines would start to go after 6 years. A better choice in oil would've meant he could've gone longer between rebuilds. You often hear testimonials from all different types of amateur racers (not just drag racers) who used to rebuild their engines twice or three times a season, but then switched to Redline or Amsoil, and their rebuild rate went way down.

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Ok, I know it's anecdotal evidence but...

1. A friend used to run mud racers and also monster trucks back when they still used 9" Ford diffs. Using generic gear lube they would need to rebuild these rears at least once a month during the racing season.

Changing to a synthetic gear lube allowed them to run all year with no rebuilds.

2. In the early 80's I remember a man named Yoshima who became semi-famous in M/C racing circles for things he was doing with Honda 400 engines. These were plain bearing engines and one of the problems he was having with them was crank breakage.

Changing from dino to a synthetic oil stopped this problem completely.

3. I worked on a number of Yamaha road racers back in the day and no matter what, they would consistently stick pistons and require early crank service unless good quality ( synthetic ) oil was used as premix.

There's no downside to using good lubricants other than the perceived higher cost. I say "perceived", because I think long term the cost may well be lower. Broken or prematurely worn parts parts cost money too...

 

[Chris 2421]

I'll have to disagree with some of this.Most all out drag racing engines do not go 6 years,most are at least re-ringed or re-bearinged every year.I'm not trying to sound like I'm bragging,but I think 6 years is exceptional for a race engine that is run to 68-7000 rpm every weekend.My last engine which I used as a spare was a 383 that I built in 1982,although I used it the last 5 years very hard,and it was my #1 engine from 1982-1991.It had never been torn apart and was just pulled this past race season.The 440's don't last as long as the 383's do because of the 440 having a larger main bearing diameter,along with a longer rod,which increases the side loads,hence the 440 will lose compression faster than the small bore/rod 383.This is why now the hot tip for big block Mopar racers is to use a 440 crank that is cut down to the 383 main saddle size and use it in either a 383 or the 400 Mopar block.So in closing,it's not the oil,it's the maintenance and the correct assembly that makes these engines last.BTW, I change the oil once a month,so it's not cost efficent to use synthetic oil.

[ August 03, 2003, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Chris 2421 ]

 

[buster]

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So in closing,it's not the oil,it's the maintenance and the correct assembly that makes these engines last.

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I agree. Too many cars I know have run just fine using the cheapest oil available. Worrying about 3ppm of lead vs 8ppm is an illness IMO.

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You often hear testimonials from all different types of amateur racers (not just drag racers) who used to rebuild their engines twice or three times a season, but then switched to Redline or Amsoil, and their rebuild rate went way down.

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I've never heard anybody say such a thing. If it's true, I'm impressed.

[ August 03, 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[metroplex]

so what's the best way to keep the tranny working? I have a 4R70W and I've heard that you can just leave the OD on, BUT from my experience and from what a foremost expert in Ford trannies said, constant 3-4/4-3 shifting will wear out the OD band as its the weakest part of the tranny.

So for drag racing, should I lock it out?

 

[pscholte]

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Originally posted by buster:

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So in closing,it's not the oil,it's the maintenance and the correct assembly that makes these engines last.

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I agree. Too many cars I know have run just fine using the cheapest oil available. Worrying about 3ppm of lead vs 8ppm is an illness IMO.

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You often hear testimonials from all different types of amateur racers (not just drag racers) who used to rebuild their engines twice or three times a season, but then switched to Redline or Amsoil, and their rebuild rate went way down.

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I've never heard anybody say such a thing. If it's true, I'm impressed.

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Buster,

I have heard this often and it includes M1 as well. I have a veteran Formula Ford racer a couple of houses down from me and he can't say enough good about M1 (like he no longer needs to run an oil cooler).

 

[Patman]

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I agree. Too many cars I know have run just fine using the cheapest oil available. Worrying about 3ppm of lead vs 8ppm is an illness IMO

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I do agree, I do have an illness!

But look at it this way, I need my LT1 engine to last me a long time, I don't plan on getting another car until I can afford a C5 Corvette (gonna try for a 99 model) but that'll be probably 5-7 years away, maybe even 10. I'm at 89k on my engine now, so at 20k per year, I need this engine to really go the distance. So for me, the difference between 3ppm of lead and 8ppm of lead in each of my UOAs is the difference between spending $0 on an engine rebuild, or spending $5000.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Just fine is not good enough

 

[novadude]

Honestly, I believe making multiple runs in an evening is easier on the engine than nights when you only get a few runs.

I dread sitting around for 3 hrs in between runs on a 40 deg night when I am at the front of the staging lanes. By the time you know they are calling your class, you have little time to warm up the engine properly. WOT on a cold engine can do more harm than "hot laps", in my opinion.

 

[Patman]

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Originally posted by novadude:
Honestly, I believe making multiple runs in an evening is easier on the engine than nights when you only get a few runs.

I dread sitting around for 3 hrs in between runs on a 40 deg night when I am at the front of the staging lanes. By the time you know they are calling your class, you have little time to warm up the engine properly. WOT on a cold engine can do more harm than "hot laps", in my opinion.

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Good point, I think a happy medium between the two is the best bet. If you get a half hour to an hour between runs, and your oil temp doesn't drop below 170 or so, then it should offer the best protection for your engine.

In my LT1, it runs it's best ETs when stone cold, although I do feel bad for running it so hard during this time. Windy days are better for me so that I can open the hood and get the upper intake manifold cooled off fast (that sucker traps a lot of heat which is the main source for slowing down the car on hot laps) but then still be able to make a run with the bottom end of the motor still hot enough.

 

[novadude]

Yeah, my 5.0 Ford loves a cold intake too. I just hate it when the engine cools off for TOO long!

 

[Neonmike22]

Interestingly enough though, i've gotten some of my best ETs after making a pass, and then immediately making another pass, perhaps 2 mintes of down time with the car running the whole time. Perhaps that's a driver thing though.

Threadjack:

Being from Pittsburgh novadude, i take it you run at PRP/Keystone? You going up on tuesday?

 

[Chris 2421]

I have a Moroso electric water pump drive and I will only cool the engine down to 120 degrees if I know it's going to be a while before we race again.If the engine gets cooler,I'll start it up and build some "heat" into it,especially in fall.

 

[buster]

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I do agree, I do have an illness!

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Patman, my friend, we all have the illness.

Anyone who samples oils like we do is a little off IMO> But it's true, trending wear rates through UOA's makes sense to me, especially if your concerned with maximum protection.

 

[novadude]

Neonmike... I have only made it to PRP once this year. I have not found the time for much racing this year.

It seems that everytime I am available to go racing it rains.

I have a purple '95 GT Mustang. If you ever see me up there, stop and say hello!