About 2 months ago I bought a Fram Sure Drain system for my Lumina. Worked great so I just bought another one for my Tahoe. Both are model SD-4 so they are identical.
Now here is the interesting part. The most recent one has a warning printed on the packiing material saying it is not for use on Saturns. I still have the package for the first one and the warning is not on there.
Anyone have an idea why? Could the sludge in some Saturns prevent the oil from draining through the holes in the Sure Drain? If so, I wonder why they don't mention Toyotas in the warning too. Or could the warning be for some other reason? Maybe the drain on the Saturns don't have clearance around them or something? Anyone have an idea?
Does Saturn sludge problem affect Fram Sure Drain
- Thread starter CJH
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on my 98 saturn coupe the drain plug is located at the Bottom edge of the oil pan, only instead of being on the very bottom or the side its at a 45 degree angle. It is very close to the ground though. as in speed bumps and what not probably come VERY VERY close it...
Patman
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quote:Someone needs to come up with a "drain plug relocation kit" for them!
Originally posted by joe4324: on my 98 saturn coupe the drain plug is located at the Bottom edge of the oil pan, only instead of being on the very bottom or the side its at a 45 degree angle. It is very close to the ground though. as in speed bumps and what not probably come VERY VERY close it...
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The Saturn does sit low to the ground and the drain plug apparently is a different size than most drain plugs.
Probably FRAM does not make a Sure Drain for the Saturn because it sits so low to the ground and it may be a different size than most drain plugs.
Good question - somebody with a Saturn (Mystic?) needs to climb under and see how the drain plug is oriented. My guess is that it's a low-hanging issue (don't want it to get ripped off). That or different threads, oil pan material or something like that.
I can't see how they would want to identify one sludge monster as a limitation on the product. That would call the "sure drain's" overall performance into question,and open up the chance for litigation by people who say that the drain didn't let their oil drain out due to sludge etc.
Of course that's just logic until somebody checks.
I have a 95 Saturn SL and have spent ungodly numbers of hours on Saturn message boards and I have NEVER heard of a Saturn engine dying from sludge. Perhaps you are thinking of Toyota. Saturns (S series) had oil control ring sticking problems, but not sludge problems.
The drain plug is angled downwards. I've never seen a Suredrain. Does it protrude inside the oil pan more than a typical bolt? Maybe the upward angle would trap too much oil below the invert of the outlet tube? Maybe something just inside the oil pan would conflict with the unit.
I don't think it's a clearance issue. I've been running a 2" drop on my SL1 for months with no issues at all. The engine is prety well protected by the chassis. the plug is at less than a 45 degree angle from the oil pan as well. I'd probably say more like 30 degrees would be a better estimate.
--Matt
quote:It goes beyond not just making it.....it is a warning that it is not for use on Saturns. For example, they don't make one for my Volvo....but there seems to be no warning about Volvos....
Probably FRAM does not make a Sure Drain for the Saturn because...
Maybe I can clear up the question here. I put one on my 97 SL1 and it would not hold the oil because it does not seat against the pan correctly. I use them on my ford truck and my honda crv without a problem, but the saturn will lose a quart a day if you keep it on. Fram told me they are working on a solution (yeah right).
Actually, I agree with manualman and kev99sl that Saturns do not have sludge problems. I did use Auto-RX in my Saturn and there did seem to be some sort of gunk in the oil filter, but I do not believe that Saturns have problems like some Toyotas apparently have. I change oil in my Saturn every 3000 miles and the oil has always stayed quite clear for a very long period of time. I think I can say that of all three Saturns that I have owned. No matter what brand of motor oil I used in my Saturns, the oil always stayed clear for a long time. I used to wonder when I heard somebody with a gasoline engine vehicle say how quickly their oil turned black. Well, maybe with a 'sludge monster,' but not with any Saturn that I have experience with. How about you other Saturn guys and gals?
I do believe that Saturns have had some problems with rings and that sludge might build up in the ring grooves. What is needed is something that can concentrate on these deposits and safely remove them. What sort of product would be able to do that?
quote:I had always understood that the color / blackening of the oil was meaningless as an indicator of goodness or quality. Can anyone clarify? [ July 01, 2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: CJH ]
Originally posted by Mystic: I used to wonder when I heard somebody with a gasoline engine vehicle say how quickly their oil turned black.
Did you see the pictures of that sludged up 4Runner? You can bet that the oil that came out of that one was black as coal.
Actually, an oil should eventually turn dark-otherwise that would be an indication that the oil was not holding dust and stuff in suspension. But if a gasoline engine turns a motor oil black as coal very quickly (such as a diesel engine just normally does) that would be cause for concern-and maybe some Auto-RX.
If the oil in my Saturn turned coal black in 100 miles-I would be concerned.
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