Does frequency tran fluid change eliminate problem

[Kira]

Hello, Many thanks Astro14.
If I were to do this job the first steps would be to make sure the local Volvo dealership would cooperate with the VIDA settings and then procure the engine bar lift.
It sure looks like the weight of the engine is born by the edges of the fenders!

Fantastically detailed link. You're tops. Kira

 

[cronk]

Aside from preventing clutch and hard part wear, clean fluid is also important to keep the valve body clean and working properly.
Old fluid can leave deposits and cause sticking in the valve body and solenoids.
I actually fixed my cousins Grand Prix, the torque converter lockup solenoid would stick. The torque converter would stay locked up coming to a stop and stall the engine.
I dropped the pan, changed the fluid and filter.
After a few miles of driving, everything was working as normal again, and he drove the car for a year or 2 after that.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Kira
Hello, Many thanks Astro14.
If I were to do this job the first steps would be to make sure the local Volvo dealership would cooperate with the VIDA settings and then procure the engine bar lift.
It sure looks like the weight of the engine is born by the edges of the fenders!

Fantastically detailed link. You're tops. Kira


My dealer was not familiar with the adaptation cycle - the tech shut off the car each time I brought a car in. Shutting off the car ends the adapt cycle. They were very accommodating, and I got to spend some time with the techs themselves going over the VIDA printout of the adapt cycle.

You might find that it costs less to download VIDA (Volvo service software) and get a Chinese DiCE (laptop to car diagnostic connector)...I am still planning to do that myself...

I borrowed the engine bar lift. My neighbor owns a NAPA Auto Care station.

In any event, that particular trans suffered from Aisin's manufacturing flaws, and from Volvo saying the fluid was "lifetime"....but buried in the fine print of the OM, it says to change it every 52,500 miles if the car is used in police or taxi service.

So change the fluid.

 

[cbear]

Originally Posted By: Lapham3
I have always changed ALL fluids ahead of the 'schedules'. With transmissions, I like to get my own 'baseline' with changing the filter and inspecting the pan(if applicable). After that, and all is well, I tend to just R+R the percentage of ATF that comes with a simple drain-or with out a drain plug I've used a cooling line to pull 3-4 quarts every year or two(say 20k miles)I did have a failure with my El Camino with a GM THM200C years ago, but that was a weak trans, especially behind a SBC V8. The year before mine, they used a THM350C and I'd probably still be fine if I'd had that.

1977 by chance? I had a 77 Caprice with a THM200, because it was the first year of the new 'downsized' model. They quickly went back to the THM350.

 

[jmb3675]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Originally Posted By: jmb3675
When I poster earlier I forgot that I also had a transmission fail on a Fairmont. I only had reverse when that one went. Now that I know more about cars I still wonder if new fluid and a filter would have fixed it. I really liked that car.


A friend of mine had a Fairmont in college. We beat on that thing like crazy and it never showed a sign of slowing down. He sold it about 3 years after we graduated and it was still running. I know for a fact that he did oil changes and that was it.

So the question I have is what did you do to that poor Fairmont

I bought for 125 bucks. It had holes in the floor, which the city helped us cover with no parking signs, no grill or headlight surrounds. Since the tail lights covered the whole back of the car, the big dent was hidden and it struggled to get to 55 mph so he sold it to me cheap. I didn't do any maintenance on it for the 3 years I had it. I never even checked the oil. It did stop leaking oil a few months after I got it. I did add washer fluid once in a while. It never failed to start and The engine ran great the day it was towed away. It just wouldn't go forward. I sold it to a scrap dealer for 100 bucks. The tires were like new, so I kept them for another car.

That car was run through the woods, deep puddles, plowed through snowbanks, pushed my friends cars home when they broke down (I miss real bumpers), we danced on the roof and sat on it by the river, and just about anything else we could think of. All my friends signed the interior. We made memories with that car.

 

[95busa]

I can say that some transmissions are pickier than others. In my torqshift, the trans is to be serviced every 30K, bypass filter changed every 30K, pan filter every other service. Pretty specific stuff. When I pulled the bypass, it was indeed funky. The pan was very clean though, apparently the bypass did the right thing, which means the usual layer of funk on the bottom of trans pans circulates through the trans. I am a 30-40K trans oil change kind of guy. Seems with new transmissions having more gears (more shifting) proper maintenance becomes more important than ever. I understand transmission oil doesnt go through the same stresses as engine oil, but debris is still just as bad on them (clogged passages, wear on clutches, solenoids, soft metal bores, etc), and dropping a pan, slamming a new filter in, cleaning the magnet and the pan never hurt anything.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
I once owned a used 1974 Chevrolet Caprice that had transmission issues in 1984. It cost me around $2,500.00 to get it fixed by AAMCO. Needless to say but the fellow, who was in charge of the shop, said that the transmission should have it's fluid/filter changed on a regular basis to prevent future transmission problems. I was in another town when the yearly check-up was due, and the transmission had some problems that were fixed under the nationwide warranty by another AAMCO. The warranty helped me avoid another costly repair.


Typical AAMCO for that era. If they had properly fixed it, it wouldn't need fixing again a year later.

 

[philipp10]

I just have to jump in here with my 2 cents. I am of the thought that most of this tranny fluid changing is a waste of time. Now there are some caveats. I am referring to modern cars, built in the last 10 years. Older cars were another era and may be different. Transmissions are a closed system. Unless seals are leaking how can the fluid break down? Secondly, transmission fluids are much better now. I read posters that say, "I change it because the fluid is dark". I say, your fluid is dark due to slipping and over-heating so you have issues with your transmission, NOT the fluid itself. The second reason people claim to change it is due to metal shavings in the fluid. The tranny has a filter, it should be filtering any metal shavings out. Unless the filter is clogged, the oil should be flowing and clean. Just my opinion.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
I just have to jump in here with my 2 cents. I am of the thought that most of this tranny fluid changing is a waste of time. Now there are some caveats. I am referring to modern cars, built in the last 10 years. Older cars were another era and may be different. Transmissions are a closed system. Unless seals are leaking how can the fluid break down? Secondly, transmission fluids are much better now. I read posters that say, "I change it because the fluid is dark". I say, your fluid is dark due to slipping and over-heating so you have issues with your transmission, NOT the fluid itself. The second reason people claim to change it is due to metal shavings in the fluid. The tranny has a filter, it should be filtering any metal shavings out. Unless the filter is clogged, the oil should be flowing and clean. Just my opinion.


I take it you feel the same way about debris floating around in your engine oil as well,since it is of course filtered,right.

An automatic transmission has miles of small passages that will affect the operating characteristics if impeded in any way.
So even the smallest particle could create a big problem.
Tranny guy I ride with told me if a tranny has 100k and hasn't had any fluid exchanged then don't do it at all. He said the damage has already been done,accumulation has already started and new fluid will begin cleaning these deposits and likely fry the unit. There are exceptions of course.
A torque converter beats the life out of the fluid,so I expect over time and the extreme heat created prior to lock up will shear the fluid to some degree,and the heat has to degrade the fluid over hundreds of thousands of miles as well.
So for me I like to do a drain and fill every 30k miles,and shorten it if I feel the need such as a tow rig and so on.
Too many things can go wrong with an automatic tranny. I just don't feel for the cost of fluid it's worth the potential significant expense fixing it if there is a problem.
If they can be kept clean and operating as designed,without any major flaws I don't see why they can't run properly for the entire vehicles life.

 

[philipp10]

well, engine oil is filtered, right? Its constantly pumped thru a 10 um filter so in theory, it should not have any debris. I challenge you, on your next oil change to find any of this "debris". There is no way a 10 micron particle is going to clog passages in your tranny. I think tranny life is more dependent on the initial design and if it is used as designed. Brown and smelly fluid should be a sign of over-heating and being ran outside of design spec, not that the fluid is bad. Your focusing on the fluid when you should be looking at why is the fluid brown and supposedly full of debris. Toyota does not recommend any tranny fluid change for life. Got to be a reason why and its not that they are hoping you will fry the tranny. Testing has proved its un-necessary.

 

[Bill_G]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
I just have to jump in here with my 2 cents. I am of the thought that most of this tranny fluid changing is a waste of time. Now there are some caveats. I am referring to modern cars, built in the last 10 years. Older cars were another era and may be different. Transmissions are a closed system. Unless seals are leaking how can the fluid break down? Secondly, transmission fluids are much better now. I read posters that say, "I change it because the fluid is dark". I say, your fluid is dark due to slipping and over-heating so you have issues with your transmission, NOT the fluid itself. The second reason people claim to change it is due to metal shavings in the fluid. The tranny has a filter, it should be filtering any metal shavings out. Unless the filter is clogged, the oil should be flowing and clean. Just my opinion.


Wow - not sure the words you have written are worth 2 cents - do you have a specific resource or reference that you are basing your opinion on?

 

[LotI]

My feeling is the OEM's don't recommend fluid replacement for "life", is twofold:

1. They want the 5-year cost of ownership number low, so they sell more cars.
2. Their expectation of life is less than 150k miles. Then you come back to them and buy a new car.

They're not making cars, they're making money.

 

[philipp10]

sorry I don't buy that at all. The car market is WAY to competitive to recommend not changing transmission fluid if that will cause premature failure. Do you honestly think Toyota made a decision to recommend not to change their fluid knowing they will see early transmission failures? The would be equivalent to corporate suicide long term when every car they built was dying at 150K miles. Personally I believe the recommendation is based upon engineering tests. The world of car maintenance is changing and this is no different than when they removed zerks from the front end. Everyone thought we would see early failures but we are not.

I am not arguing never changing the transmission fluid but I am saying, the manufacturer know best. I find it funny, automatic transmissions do not provide a method to COMPLETELY change out the fluid as so much is left in the torque converter. If fluid change was so critical and debris was being left in the unit, wouldn't you think they would have provided a way to fully drain your tranny? And my final point is, if your fluid is being burnt, you have bigger issues than a fluid change will remedy.

 

[Kestas]

I have an arrogant german friend who drives german vehicles. When we talk about fluid maintenance, he smugly points out that his vehicles are filled-for-life and he trusts the manufacturer's recommendations. Then a bit later he admits his transmission is having hiccups after 100K.

Same with engine oil. He follows the oil monitor and smugly remarks how it only requires changing after 13K. Again, he later admits the engine smokes a little.

Transmission fluid maintenance is something I'll never cheap out on. It's one of the most expensive parts you could replace on a vehicle because of neglect, and the problems are largely avoidable.

 

[philipp10]

But are the transmission hiccups due to old or bad fluid? Does the engine smoke because of his 13k OCI? That's really the crux of this debate. I have been looking that this site and all of the used oil analysis's that have been done. I have yet to see a UOA where they said, your oil is toast and should have been changed it way earlier. Most of them say your doing great and you could go longer on your OCI's. Transmissions ARE complicated and expensive but to me, changing the fluid will not cure its issues. I think because transmissions have always been trouble prone and they are expensive, the average person wants to do whatever they can so keep them healthy, I just question this idea that the more you change the fluid, the better.

 

[CBR.worm]

In an ideal world, that's all good, but we know that in many designs the ATF is run hotter than optimal and oxidizes. Also in many cases there are not great filters in place to catch metal and fiber debris. Changing ATF is a good practice assuming the correct oil and amount is used and debris is not allowed to enter.

In ideal operating conditions ATF may be suitable for lifetime use in some situations. In others, the fluid limits the lifetime.

 

[mjk]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I do two Gen 4 Camry automatics at close to the book intervals which is 20 or 25 K for their partial change of 2.7 quarts. 300K on one of them now. Both show a slight color change in the drained fluid.
The 92 to 96 V6 Camry Gen 3 is supposed to suffer from early transmission faliure if fluid changes are not done on time , especially the wagons and vehicles used for towing. I suspect fluid has been improved, as has motor oil, since '96.


I am at 241k on my 1996 V6. No issues at all. To my knowledge, I (3rd owner) was the first one to do a pan drop/drain, which I did at about 150k. Between 150k and the present, I've drained it 3x via the drain plug.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
sorry I don't buy that at all. The car market is WAY to competitive to recommend not changing transmission fluid if that will cause premature failure. Do you honestly think Toyota made a decision to recommend not to change their fluid knowing they will see early transmission failures? The would be equivalent to corporate suicide long term when every car they built was dying at 150K miles. Personally I believe the recommendation is based upon engineering tests. The world of car maintenance is changing and this is no different than when they removed zerks from the front end. Everyone thought we would see early failures but we are not.

I am not arguing never changing the transmission fluid but I am saying, the manufacturer know best. I find it funny, automatic transmissions do not provide a method to COMPLETELY change out the fluid as so much is left in the torque converter. If fluid change was so critical and debris was being left in the unit, wouldn't you think they would have provided a way to fully drain your tranny? And my final point is, if your fluid is being burnt, you have bigger issues than a fluid change will remedy.


This is true to an extent. A large number of people do not keep their cars past 200k. Most of the cars that advertise lifetime fill will make it that far under light-duty service.

The problem with servicing transmissions is the person doing it. There's a HUGE issue with using the wrong fluid (like a lot of people on this site) and not getting the fluid level correct. I'm actually starting to prefer servicing the transmissions that lack dipsticks since the aid of a scan-tool and the check bolt can actually allow for a more accurate fluid level check.

The readings on dipsticks can vary significantly depending on the fluid temperature - if you don't have access to the scan tool, it is very difficult to get the fluid level correct. A lot of transmissions (especially CVTs) have very little tolerance for overfilling.

Point is - if you service your transmission, do it right. And since many of them are not serviced correctly, you are better off leaving it alone.

 

[crazyoildude]

i believe in trans fluid changes as for the guy with a honda that has all those miles on his original honda transmission now that is amazing everyone knows Honda transmissions (automatic) are not known for lasting.

 

[crazyoildude]

that is true if the transmissions fail early people will stay away from that make.