Does Amsoil S2k still meet the A3 spec?
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"A3 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline engines and / or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and / or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer. HT/HS >3.5"
Greater than 3.5, I guess it misses the spec.
Greater than 3.5, I guess it misses the spec.
GSV is correct. I believe Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 should be able to meet the ACEA A5 requirements. ACEA A5 is essentially the same as ACEA A3 but the HT/HS viscosity will be <3.5.
Darn that sucks, looks like I'll be changing oil soon
I put the 0w30 in the TDI, but since it's only 3.4 I'll probably move up to the Series 3000 5w30.
Good news though, I haven't had to add any oil in the 8,000 miles so far on the oil. I'd say it's probably down about 6 oz, I don't want to add any that will affect my oil sample at the 10K mark so I'll wait until after that to add.
I'm trying for 20K on this oil in the TDI, after that I'll go to the Series 3000. Also probably all subsequent filter changes on the F150 I'll add the Series 3000. I'm thinking this might be the better of the oils, comparing the Series 2000 and Series 3000.
Buster,
It still meets ACEA A3/B4 in terms of wear/deposits, but the latest batch data shows it's about 3% thinner - hardly a showstopper. Noack volatility has been decreased from 9.2% to 8.6%, which helps reduce oil consumption and oxidative thickening. The cold flow properties have been improved marginally as well.
I do like the Series 3000, 5w-30 even better and have fo some time. There are a number of reasons for this, some of which are too obscure to go into here.
Tooslick
It still meets ACEA A3/B4 in terms of wear/deposits, but the latest batch data shows it's about 3% thinner - hardly a showstopper. Noack volatility has been decreased from 9.2% to 8.6%, which helps reduce oil consumption and oxidative thickening. The cold flow properties have been improved marginally as well.
I do like the Series 3000, 5w-30 even better and have fo some time. There are a number of reasons for this, some of which are too obscure to go into here.
Tooslick
It's just more evidence that:
Amsoil corporate thinks in strange ways.
ASL/ATM are just such a better deal, it's almost a joke.
Amsoil corporate thinks in strange ways.
ASL/ATM are just such a better deal, it's almost a joke.
The 3.4 doesn't bother me and in fact I like the lower NOAK, especially for my car which needs a low volatile oil. I do think this oil is extremely over priced, but has it's benefits in certain applications.
S3000 is a nice long drain oil, but for performance engines, I'm not so sure it's a good choice. It clearly has the strongetst additive package of any Amsoil oil, as it should being a deisel oil. For all we know, it could share the same base stock as Delvac 1.
I do think Redline is way ahead of the pack in terms of what they are giving you, but again, there oils are more performance oriented. For $7qt, you get a Polyester basestock and a very heavy additive package where as Amsoil S2k your still using a PAO and a heavy dose of ZDDP for $8.35qt. However, it still is a good oil. S2k has a friction modifier package that ASL/ATM dont have according to Jim V. I wouldnt be surprised if Amsoil rolls out some new oils soon as the competition is on par and in some cases pulling ahead. I would also think a POE base stock is more capable of longer drain intervals then a PAO.
[ October 30, 2003, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
S3000 is a nice long drain oil, but for performance engines, I'm not so sure it's a good choice. It clearly has the strongetst additive package of any Amsoil oil, as it should being a deisel oil. For all we know, it could share the same base stock as Delvac 1.
I do think Redline is way ahead of the pack in terms of what they are giving you, but again, there oils are more performance oriented. For $7qt, you get a Polyester basestock and a very heavy additive package where as Amsoil S2k your still using a PAO and a heavy dose of ZDDP for $8.35qt. However, it still is a good oil. S2k has a friction modifier package that ASL/ATM dont have according to Jim V. I wouldnt be surprised if Amsoil rolls out some new oils soon as the competition is on par and in some cases pulling ahead. I would also think a POE base stock is more capable of longer drain intervals then a PAO.
[ October 30, 2003, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
Buster I don't believe that your statement is entirley accurate. From what I understand the Series 2000/3000 uses higher percentage of ester along with the different additive package.
Wheras the ATM/ASL/AME/ARO/AMO/AMV/AMF use the same PAO based package.
As far as oil packages close to Delvac 1 Amsoils 10w40 AMO is closest in spec and performance.
I'd have to disagree with Pablo about the Series 2000 ...
I've been using and selling it since it came out in 1995 - both the 0w-30 and 20w-50. I'd estimate that at least 75% of my gas engine customers with newer engines run the 0w-30 and I've had excellent results with it. Prior to the introduction of the 0w-30, I almost exclusively sold the Amsoil 10w-30.
The clearest benefit of using the 0w-30 over the 10w-30 is improved fuel efficiency in short trip driving and in cold weather. Most of my local customers have short, 8-15 mile commutes to work and the 0w-30 simply flows better while the engine is warming up. I also noticed the same thing when I first ran the 0w-30 in my personal vehicles. Dozens of my local customers are aerospace engineers and they keep very careful records on the performance of their vehicles.
I haven't seen much difference in wear rates between the 0w-30 and 5w-30/10w-30, but the S2000 does hold up a bit better in terms of oxidation and TBN retention.
I'd like to see 3MP use the Series 2000, 0w-30 in his extended drain test. I 'd be willing to donate the oil if he'd like to go this route??? ....If you want to evaluate Amsoil, you should use their best extended drain product, not their third best. The Series 3000, 5w-30 is also a better extended oil than "ASL"....
Tooslick
I've been using and selling it since it came out in 1995 - both the 0w-30 and 20w-50. I'd estimate that at least 75% of my gas engine customers with newer engines run the 0w-30 and I've had excellent results with it. Prior to the introduction of the 0w-30, I almost exclusively sold the Amsoil 10w-30.
The clearest benefit of using the 0w-30 over the 10w-30 is improved fuel efficiency in short trip driving and in cold weather. Most of my local customers have short, 8-15 mile commutes to work and the 0w-30 simply flows better while the engine is warming up. I also noticed the same thing when I first ran the 0w-30 in my personal vehicles. Dozens of my local customers are aerospace engineers and they keep very careful records on the performance of their vehicles.
I haven't seen much difference in wear rates between the 0w-30 and 5w-30/10w-30, but the S2000 does hold up a bit better in terms of oxidation and TBN retention.
I'd like to see 3MP use the Series 2000, 0w-30 in his extended drain test. I 'd be willing to donate the oil if he'd like to go this route??? ....If you want to evaluate Amsoil, you should use their best extended drain product, not their third best. The Series 3000, 5w-30 is also a better extended oil than "ASL"....
Tooslick
I won't argue on the Series 3000.
I won't even say Series 2000 0W-30 is a "bad oil" and certainly it's the juice for cold short trips.
BUT it has been really sucky in UOA's and it is NOT worth $8.35 qt and shipping and just barely worth $6.45.
No thanks - the value is the $4.55 and the $4.00 qt Amsoil PAO's.
I won't even say Series 2000 0W-30 is a "bad oil" and certainly it's the juice for cold short trips.
BUT it has been really sucky in UOA's and it is NOT worth $8.35 qt and shipping and just barely worth $6.45.
No thanks - the value is the $4.55 and the $4.00 qt Amsoil PAO's.
I think ASL/ATM are two of the best buys among all oils. I do think S2000 offers some benefits that are not usually talked about. I know two people that have lowered there engine temps. from running this oil in a Corvette and Tahoe by 10-20F. S2k has a lower Cf and to me this is a nice benefit when you have a sports car. However, wear rates could be better and the price of this oil is negative.
[ October 31, 2003, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: buster ]
[ October 31, 2003, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: buster ]
Pablo,
Go back and look at the oil analysis data - most of the problems with running long drain intervals are in GM, V-6 and V-8 engines. I've had no problems in running long drain intervals with the 0w-30 in any German or Japanese engine. Try the 0w-30 in a small, four cylinder turbo motor and it will perform extremely well ...
In a few of these cases, the engine had high mileage using a petroleum oil and was switched over without flushing it. You can't immediately go and run a long drain in this situation.
You can get excellent results with the Series 2000 - you just have to know what you are doing ....
Tooslick
Go back and look at the oil analysis data - most of the problems with running long drain intervals are in GM, V-6 and V-8 engines. I've had no problems in running long drain intervals with the 0w-30 in any German or Japanese engine. Try the 0w-30 in a small, four cylinder turbo motor and it will perform extremely well ...
In a few of these cases, the engine had high mileage using a petroleum oil and was switched over without flushing it. You can't immediately go and run a long drain in this situation.
You can get excellent results with the Series 2000 - you just have to know what you are doing ....
Tooslick
Let me add to this ...
I'd never run Amsoil more than 10,000-12,000 miles in any new GM engine without doing an oil analysis. I'd feel completely fine running it for 15,000-20,000 miles in any new, non-turbocharged VW/Audi, or toyota engine, aside from the 3.0L, V-6. I still don't trust that one ....
Ted
I'd never run Amsoil more than 10,000-12,000 miles in any new GM engine without doing an oil analysis. I'd feel completely fine running it for 15,000-20,000 miles in any new, non-turbocharged VW/Audi, or toyota engine, aside from the 3.0L, V-6. I still don't trust that one ....
Ted
Too Slick wrote:
a) Amsoil flush (hmmmm)
b) 12 months max (that is a serious bacon saver)
c) Filter swaps and top ups (this is the best)
d) the chart (hardly mentioned, but good)
e) Mechanically sound motor (butt coverage, but good)
f) UOA's (IF you go beyond)
I won't take this as a personal insult. Because it so nicely makes my point. Just how much detail does Amsoil corporate tell customers or even dealers about changing over to S2K and going 35,000 miles? Don't use it in V8's? Make sure all the miles are highway? Make sure the engine is clean beyond clean before you start? Ease up to the 35k, by going 10K, 15k, etc intervals first? NO there is almost NO details forthcoming. The only 6 basics and even those aren't emphasized:
a) Amsoil flush (hmmmm)
b) 12 months max (that is a serious bacon saver)
c) Filter swaps and top ups (this is the best)
d) the chart (hardly mentioned, but good)
e) Mechanically sound motor (butt coverage, but good)
f) UOA's (IF you go beyond)
Series 2000 0W-30 does NOT suck.
It suffers to some extent, from what Redline does. Lots of cleaning going on.
It suffers to some extent, from what Redline does. Lots of cleaning going on.
Does anyone else notice this pattern? Redline, Delvac 1 and S2k, all which have a good deal of esters (especially D1/RL) all show inconsistant UOA's. As pablo stated, the cleaning effect is part of it and maybe some other chemical reaction taking place that skews the spectrometer.
S2k is an oil that I've always like the specs of. It does make me a bit angry the way Amsoil advertises it as far as 35k mile drains, however, ignoring that aspect of it, it is a good oil. Jim V from Amsoil says it contains the friction modifier package which I like. Lower friction will give you lower engine temps and better MPG.
S2k is an oil that I've always like the specs of. It does make me a bit angry the way Amsoil advertises it as far as 35k mile drains, however, ignoring that aspect of it, it is a good oil. Jim V from Amsoil says it contains the friction modifier package which I like. Lower friction will give you lower engine temps and better MPG.
Remember this?
OCI = (C*)(mpg)(sump in qts)(cubic inches/hp)
Where C* is a quality factor, based on the type of oil used ....For the best PAO/Ester synthetics, I use a C* of 120.
It's difficult to run intervals > 15k miles in a large displacement V-8 with a 5-6 qt sump, using only standard oil filtration. The issue is simply the # of fuel you burn over 15k-25k miles and the resulting oil contamination/degradation.
German made, V-8 engines using long drain intervals typically hold 8-10 qts of oil. Their engineers think the same way I do ....
OCI = (C*)(mpg)(sump in qts)(cubic inches/hp)
Where C* is a quality factor, based on the type of oil used ....For the best PAO/Ester synthetics, I use a C* of 120.
It's difficult to run intervals > 15k miles in a large displacement V-8 with a 5-6 qt sump, using only standard oil filtration. The issue is simply the # of fuel you burn over 15k-25k miles and the resulting oil contamination/degradation.
German made, V-8 engines using long drain intervals typically hold 8-10 qts of oil. Their engineers think the same way I do ....
Well, I'm glad to know the S2K doesn't suck!
Right now, I would never even consider putting 35,000 miles on a single oil change. I'm just looking for the best oil I can afford that will last between 6-8K miles.
However, a mechanic that used to do some work on my Jeep told me that a buddy of his had run some Amsoil, not sure which one, for over 100,000 miles without changing it. This was on some sort of heavy duty pickup. The guy had a dual filtration system on his truck and all he ever did was change the filters.
Right now, I would never even consider putting 35,000 miles on a single oil change. I'm just looking for the best oil I can afford that will last between 6-8K miles.
However, a mechanic that used to do some work on my Jeep told me that a buddy of his had run some Amsoil, not sure which one, for over 100,000 miles without changing it. This was on some sort of heavy duty pickup. The guy had a dual filtration system on his truck and all he ever did was change the filters.
Paul,
The comment was not directed at you ....
I was referring to folks who get this stuff directly off a website, rather than working with an experienced dealer like yourself or MSparks. That's where I've seen some issues in terms of specific product applications, drain intervals, etc. I've learned a great deal by looking at the multitude of UOA's presented here - it would take me 10 years to accumulate this much data!
Sorry for giving you the wrong impression.
The comment was not directed at you ....
I was referring to folks who get this stuff directly off a website, rather than working with an experienced dealer like yourself or MSparks. That's where I've seen some issues in terms of specific product applications, drain intervals, etc. I've learned a great deal by looking at the multitude of UOA's presented here - it would take me 10 years to accumulate this much data!
Sorry for giving you the wrong impression.
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