Dodge dart running issues after filling up fuel

Messages
3,757
Location
southern mo
I have noticed our 2.4l dart will act up after getting a full tank of gas. I have a habit of leaving the car on when fueling especially in the winter time. After fueling it'll be ok and then you'll stop like to pull out from the station and it'll just die. Fired right back up it'll do this a couple times. Then usually be it start chugging and cutting out for a few seconds and then clear up and be perfect then on Only seems to do it when the car is fueled while running. I've owned it 3 yrs and never was this a problem until recently. No codes or anything of the sort. Different gas stations have been used with the same results. Very strange situation. Any thoughts? My guess is some valve on the tank or the module?
 
Messages
12,939
Location
ROCHESTER, NY
I have a habit if overfilling my cars after the clicker shuts off. Could this be you situation? I know it's not good to overfill as it caused fuel to saturate the vapor unit/purge valve etc...IDK if I said that correctly?!?!
 
Messages
2,992
Location
Chicagoland
Could be sucking fuel into the charcoal canister, and when the PCM sends the purge command it's flooding the engine. My parents 2004 Grand Caravan had a stuck valve or something, every time you'd fill the tank completely full it would do exactly what you described. But if we stopped it before it's full, it wouldn't do it.... I'd try that next time and see if still does it.
 
Messages
4,597
Location
Manchester, England
Remove the charcoal canister and all associated systems. all tanks need a fill and a feed, some need a return. None need a purge canister, especially not one that causes problems. Remove it and cap off any lines and map the function out and the problem is solved.
 
Messages
13,299
Location
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Troubleshoot)....At the same location and same pump number, fuel with a half-tank remaining, to see if the same symptoms occur - as with a low, 1/8th of the tank remaining. Then come back here with your findings.
 
Messages
2,819
Location
USA
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why do you leave it running while refueling?
+1 No one should do that; it's dangerous and cars are not designed for it.
 
Messages
7,973
Location
Champlain/Hudson Valley
To Olas: I believe your suggestion is risky. A purge command may be sent by the MASTER BRAIN and some pressure detection circuit may not detect what it expects. e.g. Engine vacuum may be valved to suck purge the canister. A pressure sensor you instructed the OP to remove "and cap" can't send any signal. Said sensor couldn't even pass a test signal (if there is one) because it's not there, again, at your suggestion. I think a GREAT first step would be for the OP to stop monkeying around like a jack wagon and shut his car off during fueling and see what happens.
 
Messages
35,909
Location
ME
Your purge valve is open and you're running raw gas through it. Stop it. Turn the car off like you're supposed to.
 
Messages
15,267
Location
N.H, U.S.A.
Originally Posted by ram_man
I have noticed our 2.4l dart will act up after getting a full tank of gas. ...
1) Never leave the car running when refueling, if its in a evap check phase it will see excess air pressure and start pulling a vacuum on the tank. You may be sucking in fuel ir just a lot of air. 2) You have a couple qts of water and alcohol phase separated on the bottom of the tank, and you are stirring it up; it settles out in about a couple minutes 3) You filled to past initial shutoff and flooded the evap purge canister. I never top off or even try to fill the tank. If I know I'm not going to be driving hard or WOT, Ill run near empty if i suspectt phase separated fuel, dump some drygas on there and run it near dry. You can add a little top oil in there, but Im not sure if you can cause sludge. Oil and water are not good partners,
 
Messages
2,078
Location
America's Dairyland
Evap test state is typically between 1/4 tank and 3/4 tank under certain conditions. If you are never in the right test conditions your MIL may never come on. As others have said, shut the car of as designed, and for safety and check to see if it continues.
 

Astro14

Staff member
Messages
11,833
Location
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted by Olas
Remove the charcoal canister and all associated systems. all tanks need a fill and a feed, some need a return. None need a purge canister, especially not one that causes problems. Remove it and cap off any lines and map the function out and the problem is solved.
Completely illegal. Removing federally mandated emissions equipment is terrible advice. OP - have you tried filling the car up with it OFF? As specified in your manual?
 
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Messages
894
Location
Alberta
Removing the evap canister and equipment will cause all kinds of OBDII codes to be thrown. There are tests that check vacuum and different parameters that will fail. Ridiculous idea. To the OP, turn the car off when you fill it. Keeping it running is dangerous and causes issues like you are having. Well into the -30s here and the interior doesn't get cold on a 5 minute fill. That's the first step to troubleshooting. If it continues after filling with the car off, you probably have a leaking purge valve that is drawing a continuous vacuum in the tank. That vacuum is reducing fuel flow and can actually bow-in the tank on some vehicles to the point of damaging the fuel level sending unit.
 
Messages
43,331
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by eljefino
Your purge valve is open and you're running raw gas through it. Stop it. Turn the car off like you're supposed to.
This. OP: You've likely saturated the charcoal canister at this point performing this stunt, which is why it didn't do it originally, despite it being soundly unendorsed by the OEM. If you stop doing it, there is a chance that you may not have to replace it.
 

ram_man

Thread starter
Messages
3,757
Location
southern mo
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by eljefino
Your purge valve is open and you're running raw gas through it. Stop it. Turn the car off like you're supposed to.
This. OP: You've likely saturated the charcoal canister at this point performing this stunt, which is why it didn't do it originally, despite it being soundly unendorsed by the OEM. If you stop doing it, there is a chance that you may not have to replace it.
This makes sense. I really don't know why I leave it running. Just a bad habit. My dad always did it and so have I. I never top off or if I do which is very rare I maybe go from like 26.27 to 26.30 that's it though. I usually don't even bother. My OCD in that regard has gotten better as I've aged. It hasn't acted up when shutting it off to get gas. And it doesn't act up unless you fill it. It only misbehaves when fueling while running to full. So I'll stop doing that and keep a watch on it.
 

JTK

Messages
13,074
Location
Buffalo, NY
Given the cost, complexity and sensitivity of today's EVAP systems, like mentioned above there's 3 things you should avoid: 1) Frequent fuel tank top-ups. 2) Continue refueling once the nozzle trigger trips 3) Keep the engine idling during refueling.
 
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