Do you think Syntec "full synthetic" may get upgraded to Group IV?

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My crystal ball is just as cloudy as anyone elses, but personally, I doubt it. Refiners are having problems (read that, "forced allocations") worldwide just supplying Group II and Group III base stocks as it is. Group IVs are in even shorter supply. Producing PAOs is very time and energy intensive (aka, <i>expensive</i> to produce). It seems to me it would be more likely that Castrol would move towards EOPs, availability permitting. The stuff's much cheaper to produce and is showing excellent performance. Like PAO, EOP is another early GTL fluid - virtually no nitrogen, sulfur, or aromatic solvent contaminants, and there'll be more GTL fluids coming along, soon. Also keep in mind that Castrol does not refine or synthesize - they're a formulator/blender/marketer of finished lubes, only. The main reason Castrol got away from Group IVs in the U.S. was that Mobil had a stranglehold on supply and could charge whatever it wished. U.S. Castrol Syntec's alleged shortcomings notwithstanding ("priced too high, yadayadayada"), its presence on shelves probably helped keep ExxonMobil a little more honest.
 
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No, because the Group 3 is cheaper to produce and most of the the people have been duped into believing that it is an actual synthetic thanks to some mis-guided judge.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by KJA426: No, because the Group 3 is cheaper to produce and most of the people have been duped into believing that it is an actual synthetic thanks to some mis-guided judge.
Get over it, already! - Judge Judy Sheindlin. (Mobil managed, and it was Mobil who started the binding arbitration case. [Wink] )
 
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"The main reason Castrol got away from Group IVs in the U.S. was that Mobil had a stranglehold on supply and could charge whatever it wished" Only some what true the worlds largest MFG of PAO is Innovene. bruce
 
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http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000451051.cfm?x=b11,0,w "In terms of number of players, polyalphaolefin is the most concentrated of the base stock types, with just six companies making the stuff. BP's Innovene subsidiary, with plants in Feluy, Belgium, and La Porte, Texas, holds 39 percent of the total capacity, chased by ExxonMobil Chemical with 31 percent at its two in Beaumont, Texas, and Gravenchon, France. Neste in Beringen, Belgium, and Chevron Phillips Chemical in Cedar Bayou, Texas, have 13 and 12 percent of the world's PAO capacity, respectively. That leaves only 5 percent of this 392,000-metric-ton market to be shared by Chemtura, which makes high-viscosity PAO in Elmira, Ontario, and by Russia's Nizhnekamskneftekhim, the newest member of this group." ExxonMobil's PAO production is probably larger in the U.S. than BP, and not all of this production is interchangeable in terms of viscosity and grade.
 
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We often see comments that Castrol is simply a blender that subcontracts its production out to toll manufacturers and packaging companies. However, they are owned by BP. BP owns Innovene (that Bruce mentioned above) and is a major global player in this market.
 
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Very interesting. Would like to hear from ye knowledgeable ones if this was a possible reason why Shell (is Shell a non-PAO player?) developed the Pennzoil Platinum (EOP) line. I read somewhere on here that the GTL products are 20 - 30% less expensive to produce, given current technology. As the technology matures, maybe more cost savings?
 
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Group 3 is nothing more than highly refined petroleum. That's not a true synthetic, as in PAO or Esters, in my book. Why pay $5 per quart for regular oil?
 
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I don't won't to start a "what is synthetic fight", but oil is made of chemicals. The chemicals found in heavily hydrocracked oils are NOT the chemicals that are found in the starting material. I clearly don't know what refined means. Apparently making (synthesizing) chemicals that are not found in the starting material is some how refined. I am fine with the concept that designed, synthesized chemicals are conceptually different from the family of chemicals that are produced from hydrocracking. However, hydrocracking is NOT a purification step. It is not refining. The result is a material that is synthesized from a different material. Spewing factually incorrect crap is not useful! You know, even PAOs start there life as carbon in a fossil fuel. Sometimes when you are forced to smell vomit, you vomit yourself. Sorry guys..
 
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Thanks GMorg! I have come to the conclusion that the process that creates the base oil is less important than the performance of the base oil. PAO's are no longer a marquis product that is years ahead of the competition. Its price to produce may make it an unpopular choice as less expensive equally performing base oils come to market.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by KJA426: Group 3 is nothing more than highly refined petroleum.
Sorry, but you're simply wrong. Hydrocracking and isomerization go WAY beyond the simple refining of crude feedstock. And in the case of a wax isomerate Group III (like Shell's XHVI), the feedstock isn't even OIL, it's slack wax and waxy raffinate.
 
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I believe that the Amsoil Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil is type IV @ ACEA C3-04,A3/B3-04, A3/B4-04 and can be purchased through the Amsoil network.
 
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06 ranger you are hung on castrol too? I'm using gtx 5w20 in my 2.3 focus. I will stay with castrol and will use 5w20 syntec again wheather they change it or not. It had great results on my UOA when used at 5600 miles. I will use gtx in the warm summer months and syntec in the cold chicago months.
 
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Perhaps this shorted version of David C. Kramer papers from Chevron will explain things a little better to some. Link
 
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quote:
Originally posted by dfronk: I believe that the Amsoil Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil is type IV @ ACEA C3-04,A3/B3-04, A3/B4-04 and can be purchased through the Amsoil network.
that was very [Off Topic!] [ March 28, 2006, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: racer12306 ]
 
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