Do you guys trust Fram Ultra oil filters?

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The Fram bypass has been tested of course. They even made an interesting video on it. I have seen a lot of criticism of the valve here but never a documented valve issue.




Great video! Thanx KC.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The Fram bypass has been tested of course. They even made an interesting video on it. I have seen a lot of criticism of the valve here but never a documented valve issue.
It would be nice if they actually tested the valve and not the spring. I've been curious how much leakage occurs in a hard-plastic-on-metal valve like this.

Mahle did some videos comparing to Fram and Wix but they're not fancy and maybe a bit boring.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: martinq
It would be nice if they actually tested the valve and not the spring. I've been curious how much leakage occurs in a hard-plastic-on-metal valve like this.



I am satisfied with their test of the whole component but that is a very, very good question. I'd not thought about leakage.

Next time I take a Fram apart I think I'll look at the bypass closer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

If the bypass valve leaked significantly when it was closed, then the filter would never have a good test measurement per the ISO 4548-12 test standards. It would be pretty hard for a filter to achieve say 99% @ 20 micron efficiency if the bypass valve was leaking dirty oil all the time.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If the bypass valve leaked significantly when it was closed, then the filter would never have a good test measurement per the ISO 4548-12 test standards. It would be pretty hard for a filter to achieve say 99% @ 20 micron efficiency if the bypass valve was leaking dirty oil all the time.

I don't expect any leakage to be significant but many mfgs use a gasket on their valve which I would expect will make a positive seal. It's possible the Fram plastic-bypass will wear/break-in during use. I've got a couple I could inspect and see if there's any signs of that.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If the bypass valve leaked significantly when it was closed, then the filter would never have a good test measurement per the ISO 4548-12 test standards. It would be pretty hard for a filter to achieve say 99% @ 20 micron efficiency if the bypass valve was leaking dirty oil all the time.

I don't expect any leakage to be significant but many mfgs use a gasket on their valve which I would expect will make a positive seal. It's possible the Fram plastic-bypass will wear/break-in during use. I've got a couple I could inspect and see if there's any signs of that.


Per the FRAM video, it's a high temperature nylon material. They cycle it during testing 1 million times in hot oil. That's magnitudes more than then the number of times the bypass valve opens over the entire life time of a vehicle.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Per the FRAM video, it's a high temperature nylon material. They cycle it during testing 1 million times in hot oil. That's magnitudes more than then the number of times the bypass valve opens over the entire life time of a vehicle.

... and?

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If the bypass valve leaked significantly when it was closed, then the filter would never have a good test measurement per the ISO 4548-12 test standards. It would be pretty hard for a filter to achieve say 99% @ 20 micron efficiency if the bypass valve was leaking dirty oil all the time.


Another good point. The orange can is 95% and the TG and Ultra are 99%, would be mighty hard to do that if the bypass leaked I would think.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Per the FRAM video, it's a high temperature nylon material. They cycle it during testing 1 million times in hot oil. That's magnitudes more than then the number of times the bypass valve opens over the entire life time of a vehicle.

... and?


And with testing to that kind of level, I'd say the design is reliable. The whole purpose of extreme testing it to prove/validate a design.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Per the FRAM video, it's a high temperature nylon material. They cycle it during testing 1 million times in hot oil. That's magnitudes more than then the number of times the bypass valve opens over the entire life time of a vehicle.

... and?

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
And with testing to that kind of level, I'd say the design is reliable. The whole purpose of extreme testing it to prove/validate a design.

I don't think reliability was in question, was it? The type of testing they show in the first video (the same one you re-posted) is a spring & plastic fatigue test it doesn't actually test the valves function. I'm curious how much leakage a hard valve like this has.

 

[Coprolite]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
And with testing to that kind of level, I'd say the design is reliable. The whole purpose of extreme testing it to prove/validate a design.

I don't think reliability was in question, was it? The type of testing they show in the first video (the same one you re-posted) is a spring & plastic fatigue test it doesn't actually test the valves function. I'm curious how much leakage a hard valve like this has.


Note that I haven't(can't right now) watched any of the videos, so I may miss something here...

The purpose of a normally closed valve is to normally prevent flow unless actuated. The reliability of the valve would be in question if there were any leakage present. From your comment, that video didn't seem to test leakage, but I bet that they would have tested for leakage on a million cycle valve to ensure it meets design spec before and after the test, wouldn't they?

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
From your comment, that video didn't seem to test leakage, but I bet that they would have tested for leakage on a million cycle valve to ensure it meets design spec before and after the test, wouldn't they?

The test they show in the video is a mechanical actuation of the valve (they don't show where/how the pressure is applied) which is then submersed in hot oil (300F? I doubt it's 300C). I would expect the pressure to applied in the center of the underside of the valve-head and not just on the legs. And yes, it makes sense they would do some leakage testing before/after but sealing/leakage wasn't mentioned.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
And with testing to that kind of level, I'd say the design is reliable. The whole purpose of extreme testing it to prove/validate a design.

I don't think reliability was in question, was it? The type of testing they show in the first video (the same one you re-posted) is a spring & plastic fatigue test it doesn't actually test the valves function. I'm curious how much leakage a hard valve like this has.


Like I said earlier, if the bypass valve had significant leakage the filter would never come in at 99% @ 20 microns efficiency. It wouldn't take much of a leak of dirty oil to upset that filtering level. That's as close to a way of saying they really don't leak instead of actually conducting a specific "bypass valve leakage test" of some kind, which FRAM may do but didn't talk about in the video.

And actually, I would think that nylon-on-metal would produce a better seal than metal-on-metal or hard phenolic-on-metal, like some filters use.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Per the FRAM video, it's a high temperature nylon material. They cycle it during testing 1 million times in hot oil. That's magnitudes more than then the number of times the bypass valve opens over the entire life time of a vehicle.

... and?


And with testing to that kind of level, I'd say the design is reliable. The whole purpose of extreme testing it to prove/validate a design.


I always thought is was plastic and wondered if it would get brittle.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I always thought is was plastic and wondered if it would get brittle.

So did I, until I watched the video.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I always thought is was plastic and wondered if it would get brittle.


It's glass impregnated nylon, which can take 450 deg F oil (says so at 0:56 in video). That's twice as hot as normal cars run in oil temperature, which is 200 ~ 225 deg F. I doubt it gets brittle in a normal OCI.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I always thought is was plastic and wondered if it would get brittle.


It's glass impregnated nylon, which can take 300 deg F oil all day long. I doubt it gets brittle in a normal OCI.

I think KevGuy in the video said 450*.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I always thought is was plastic and wondered if it would get brittle.


It's glass impregnated nylon, which can take 300 deg F oil all day long. I doubt it gets brittle in a normal OCI.

I think KevGuy in the video said 450*.


Yes, 450 F ... I just updated my original post after watching the video again.

 

[Coprolite]

For safety purposes, please don't attempt to deep fry any oil filters in your own home.