Do we know if MoS2 additive works in modern oil?

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friendly_jacek

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I want to discuss this before getting suckered into one more oil additive that is a waste of money. I admit I did buy Slick 50 once or twice in 90's ($20 IIRC) only to find out later it only plugged the filter. More recently, a year ago, I purchased biotech additive (incidentally $20 per quart too) that did squat for the engine noise that I have (made it worse).

I did some searches and some results are not encouraging:

#1 This is an old, but big study:

Quote:
A 55-taxicab fleet test was conducted for 160 000 km


Quote:
Adding either graphite or MoS2; to an SAE 5W-30 engine oil did not affect oil economy or oil performance, but oil filter plugging was increased in high-mileage cabs. Oil filter plugging increased with increasing engine oil viscosity, filter change interval, and cab mileage.


source here: http://papers.sae.org/821227/

#2 This paper shows effects, but at the treat rate of 1% solids!

Quote:
The paper provides details of dynamometer, track, fleet, and leased car tests sponsored or conducted during the period 1963-1974. The data show an average improvement of 4.4% in fuel consumption results from the proper dispersion of 1% weight molybdenum disulfide (MoS 2 ) in the engine oil.


Source: http://papers.sae.org/750674/

We know that the popular additive LM2009 gives only 0.15% solids at the full treat rate.

#3 The well-known company Liqui Moly that markets MoS2 also sells a number of good oils, but only selected few of them contain MoS2.

#4 The modern oils already contain soluble MoDTC that generates MoS2 in situ when friction is encountered.

Based on these facts, how would you convince me that MoS2 additives actually work in modern engine oils rather than just plug oil filters?

Thanks!
 
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Mos2 is particle size is 2 and 3 microns iirc,so they pass thru the filter. Don't buy it. My monthly fuel bills at both work and home tell me that each 8 dollar can of mos2 saves me hundreds at the pump.
And every uoa I've seen with it being used showed low wear metals although not really a good indicator.
My engines all run smoother,get better mileage and its cheap.
A taxi study wouldn't really be applicable unless each cab rant the same route,same speed,same idle times etc.
Do a search. The only person I've seen that had a bad experience was arco. For whatever that's worth.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Mos2 is particle size is 2 and 3 microns iirc,so they pass thru the filter.


I know that the particles are initially small. However, they tend to aggregate with use due to active surface, unlike nano-particles that don't. It's well explained in this presentation (with pictures), page 13: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2008/session10/deer08_adhvaryu.pdf

Originally Posted By: Clevy
My monthly fuel bills at both work and home tell me that each 8 dollar can of mos2 saves me hundreds at the pump.


What is the MPG increase?

Originally Posted By: Clevy
The only person I've seen that had a bad experience was arco.


What happened to him/her?
 
I almost purchased a few cans of LM MS02 when Napa had it on sale last month. I decided against it and figured that if I really want a lot of moly I should buy PYB or one of the other high moly oils.

Does a high moly oil help with cold start wear (when everything else about the oils are similar)....in other words does the moly coating help reduce wear at start-up?
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I was hoping for some serious discussion. Oh well..


You did see that Clevy and I are both running mpg tests in our vehicles. We are getting our baseline mpgs now.

Mos2 experiment.
 
I also heard some bad stuff about Arco Graphite; I can't remember the exact details. But the oil did not seem to be on the market long. I remember seeing it once on store shelves where I live. I was tempted to buy some but I did not.

I have never heard anything bad from anybody here about LM moly additive. Heck, you can order it at NAPA.

But what I really liked was when motor oil producers were putting moly in chemical combination right in their motor oils. But now they seem to mostly be reducing the amount of moly and apparently turning to other oil additives to improve fuel mileage. What this means is anybody's guess unless you are a chemist and work for the oil companies. Some are saying that the new additives are cheaper than moly.

An alternative to using a product like LM moly additive would be to buy a motor oil like Redline. I think they still put a lot of moly in their motor oils.
 
Clevy, I want to know how you've saved hundreds and can directly attribute that to using MOS2. If you can make a good point I will go buy a few cans tomorrow. I am not being sarcastic, just want to know how you came to the conclusion of $100's in gas savings.

Thanks
Matt
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Clevy, I want to know how you've saved hundreds and can directly attribute that to using MOS2. If you can make a good point I will go buy a few cans tomorrow. I am not being sarcastic, just want to know how you came to the conclusion of $100's in gas savings.

Thanks
Matt


It is my understanding he tracks his mpg, and has been doing so for a long time. He knows mpg with and without the Mos2 added and with it he gets better mpg. Over the years the savings added up for him. This is what I've got out of reading his posts. I'm sure when he sees this he'll elaborate.

For me it has stopped a lawn mower from smoking for a few years now, w/o it it the engine smokes. I feel it fills small imperfections in the cylinders that cause oil consumption. It also helps older engines run smoother and with better compression for the same reason. Many members have made similar claims using it in their cars.

Unfortunately if this turns into a prove it thread, its going to go nowhere. All it will be is observations from different users, like each and every oil additive we discuss here. There are certain times when all you have is testimony from members, and a decision to use a product or not has to be made based on that.
 
Pass, might make your engine a smidge quieter, but as long as you are using a high quality oil your engine should be fine for years to come, no need for extra additives. I have some in my Accord now and to me the $8 price tag wasnt worth it. Will drain and refill with PP, no more additives.
 
Does a high moly oil help with cold start wear (when everything else about the oils are similar, ie: VI index, MRV etc..)....in other words does the moly coating help reduce wear at start-up?
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
Does a high moly oil help with cold start wear (when everything else about the oils are similar, ie: VI index, MRV etc..)....in other words does the moly coating help reduce wear at start-up?


I would imagine, thats the exact reason I got the stuff, I start my car multiple times a day and wanted the additional protection. But todays oils are better than ever and I trust the chemist who make them. Im sure a good syn oil has enough moly to do the job
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: volk06
35.gif



+1 Only I want a drink with mine.
36.gif



+1 to that. Hasn't every good marketing strategy included a taxi cab study? Oil goes into your crankcase. There are no magic elixirs. Mark the date and when you look back you'll feel the same about MoS2 as you did Slick 50
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
OK, I was doing some more searches and there is ARCO who had oil filter plugged in Honda Fit and this guy lost an engine due to a filter plugged by LM: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/7369-oil-additive-filter-blocked/

If I use the additive and have a problem, will LM buy me a new engine?


Arco seems to lose engines regardless so take his whole "moly wrecked my engine" stuff with a grain of salt.
Just don't use it. Its just that simple. Don't let all the guys here who use it with good things to say be of any value or consideration whatsoever.
Steer clear of it and any other additive. Engines last long without them. But those of us who have had,and continue to have fuel consumption increases and smoother running engines will continue to use it.
If you don't buy it that just means more for me to buy,and I won't complain about that.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Mos2 is particle size is 2 and 3 microns iirc,so they pass thru the filter.


I know that the particles are initially small. However, they tend to aggregate with use due to active surface, unlike nano-particles that don't. It's well explained in this presentation (with pictures), page 13: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2008/session10/deer08_adhvaryu.pdf

Originally Posted By: Clevy
My monthly fuel bills at both work and home tell me that each 8 dollar can of mos2 saves me hundreds at the pump.


What is the MPG increase?

Originally Posted By: Clevy
The only person I've seen that had a bad experience was arco.


What happened to him/her?




I've posted my mpg increases on all my vehicles many times,as well as my monthly fuel consumption in the 12 air compressors,5 generators,3 full size work vans and 2 cube vans.
I'm not in any mood to repeat myself as I've posted on this subject countless times. I used mos2 in my mustangs 2v engine for over 100000kms and when I removed it in favour of a 4v the engine was sludge free and clean and although a wear scar was visible on the cams I couldn't feel anything when I dragged my fingernail over the perceived groove.
Just don't use it. Its that simple. I've been using it for years with nothing but good results. The 8 bucks the can costs me is always returned to me exponentially in less fuel consumed.
My last hemi. An 04 ram 4x4 would get 20-21 mpg with moly in the oil. Before I treated it I couldn't get better than 17mpg.
So a 3-4 mpg increase in economy at over 5 bucks a gallon means the can paid for itself in half of the first tank of fuel,and continued to return me savings over the entire life of the oci.
And once treated only half a can is required,in my experience with the product to maintain the fuel consumption benefit. So the next oci only requires 1/4 tank to pay for itself,then the rest is money in my pocket.
My air compressors and generators are the pull cord type. After treating them with mos2 they were easier to pull over and start and I gained 1 hour of run time on a 1 gallon tank of fuel. I treated the compressors with 1/4 can every second oil change.
The product has proven its value to me,and continues to save e money. Use it or don't. Up to you.
 
Originally Posted By: panthermike

Hmm, that link is not working for me.


Hmm, there something wrong with your puter.

Here is the pertinent post:

Quote:
This additive is from Liqui Moly and made for engine oil use.
At the seasons final last year I had to retire after 7 laps because of some noise from the engine. When I pulled the head I saw piston #2 hitting the head and the wristpin clips shaped rails into the sleeve.

After looking at the lower engine part I found all bearings very dry. The rod #2 turned color to blue.

The oilpump and drive looks perfect....but I have this molykote slime in my oilpan and the filter and the bearings.

Bad luck I would say....
 
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