Do many motorcycle oils really meet Harley specs?

[EagleFTE]

There are plenty of oils out there that are fine for your bike. Look at HDs additive package. It is going to be about 1000 Phos, and 1100 Zinc with detergents including Calcium, Boron, and Magnesium for both the dino and syn 3. I don't know of any SG oils out there that meet that but enough non SGs that do. For dinos I would start with Valvoline four stroke MC oil and VR-1 street legal, Bardahl, M1 15-50 PCMO, Brad Penn, and probably more. These are all in the $3.50 to $5.00 range. The HDEOs are good too but I've not decided that a 40 weight is ok uless up north or for a winter fill. Unfortuanately the problem with HD oils is that the price is not competitive. Same for syn oils. When you go up a class look at Red Line, M1 Vtwin, Amsoil, Motul and others. All these oils will meet or beat HD's offerings. all the HDs will run fine beyond warrenty with these. Question is if you buy them for life like I do want to use. Well I've settled on Red Line for the new bikes and the 94 is running M1 15-50 for now but trying Brad Penn Vtwin 20W50 next year (case in the basement).

HD oils are fine but way over priced and easily beat. Not a fan of SM oils as it appears that to work for API you have to wear EPA knee pads. Unless you live in Cali there is no Cat Converter on you bike so why degrade your oil to appease the EPA?

 

[ZGRider]

O2man98:

Is a V-Rod engine air-cooled? If it is, then that radiator up front is not needed. I was talking about the Twin Cam air-cooled engine. The V-Rod was designed by Porsche and is not the most popular engine made by Harley. Harley sells many more of these engines than the V-Rod. Since the V-Rod is a modern engine, of course it has plain bearings and a high pressure, high flow lubrication system. Next time read the posts more carefully before trying to make a point.
Just so you know, Harley Davidson made millions of their air-cooled engines before they ever made a modern over-head cam, liquid cooled engine and they needed the engineering expertise of Porsche to do it. V-Rod owners are in the minority of Harley owners and Harley only made them so they could try to capture the youth market and to meet future emissions standards.
When the original Harley air-cooled, pushrod, over-head valve v-twin was designed in the early 30's, it was already dated. Just 10 years later, Ford produced a double over-head cam V-8 engine to be used in WWII Sherman tanks, yet Harley continued to produce flat-head engines until the 1960's. So unless your owning a V-Rod is supposed to represent all Harley owners, your point is not valid.

 

[o2man98]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
O2man98:

Is a V-Rod engine air-cooled? If it is, then that radiator up front is not needed. I was talking about the Twin Cam air-cooled engine. The V-Rod was designed by Porsche and is not the most popular engine made by Harley. Harley sells many more of these engines than the V-Rod. Since the V-Rod is a modern engine, of course it has plain bearings and a high pressure, high flow lubrication system. Next time read the posts more carefully before trying to make a point.
Just so you know, Harley Davidson made millions of their air-cooled engines before they ever made a modern over-head cam, liquid cooled engine and they needed the engineering expertise of Porsche to do it. V-Rod owners are in the minority of Harley owners and Harley only made them so they could try to capture the youth market and to meet future emissions standards.
When the original Harley air-cooled, pushrod, over-head valve v-twin was designed in the early 30's, it was already dated. Just 10 years later, Ford produced a double over-head cam V-8 engine to be used in WWII Sherman tanks, yet Harley continued to produce flat-head engines until the 1960's. So unless your owning a V-Rod is supposed to represent all Harley owners, your point is not valid.


Chill out a bit. If you had read my post you would have seen "For conversation sake" written in it. NO point was trying to be made.

FYI: Porsche held Harley's hand on design long before the Revolution. The V-Rod was not designed by Porsche but the engine was refined by them.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: o2man98
FYI: Porsche held Harley's hand on design long before the Revolution.


Right. Can you say "Nova"?

Originally Posted By: o2man98
The V-Rod was not designed by Porsche but the engine was refined by them.


The engine was designed by Porsche based on specs and parameters given to them by Harley.

 

[o2man98]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN


The engine was designed by Porsche based on specs and parameters given to them by Harley.



No, the Revolution was based off the VR1000 powerplant the was developed by Cosworth and Roush. It was given to Porsche to refine for street use. Harley and Porsche have over 70 years of history together.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: Dennis_E
Originally Posted By: PT1

One good example is their introduction of a six speed transmission in the Dyna series in 2006.

They touted it as this great new technology (which it always has been) but my 1974 Yamaha RD350 had a six speed transmission which at that time was new to the market.

Pt1,

Thanks for your comments as well. I'm not a mechanic so I never did understand the bearing skate thing.

You mentioned your 1974 motorcycle - I had a 1973(?) Yahmaha RD250 that went faster than the speed of light! Well, maybe not quite but you get my idea.

Cheers.


My 74 RD350 would blow the doors (if it had doors) off my 2006 TC88...that thing was lightning fast...

That was back in the day when I was stupid/brave enough to go that fast...

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: o2man98
Originally Posted By: G-MAN


The engine was designed by Porsche based on specs and parameters given to them by Harley.



No, the Revolution was based off the VR1000 powerplant the was developed by Cosworth and Roush. It was given to Porsche to refine for street use. Harley and Porsche have over 70 years of history together.


Yes, the Revolution is loosely based on the VR1000 powerplant. That was the "specs and parameters" I mentioned. But Porsche developed the engine, working closely with Harley engineers. The Revolution is in no way a "revamped" or "street version" VR1000 engine as I've heard some characterize it.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: PT1
My 74 RD350 would blow the doors (if it had doors) off my 2006 TC88...that thing was lightning fast...

That was back in the day when I was stupid/brave enough to go that fast...

I had a 72 Yamaha R5 when I was a teenager that looked just like the one in the pic above. The R5 was the immediate predecessor to the RD350 and was lightning "quick." Anything over half throttle in the first three gears and it was all I could do to hold on. From stop light to stop light the only bikes in my neighborhood that could spank me with no sweat were a Kawasaki S3 and Z1. I could eat any Honda 350 or 400 and the new 4-stroke Kawasaki 400 with no problem. (I don't really think either the RD or R5 can be characterized as "fast" because they both would top out around 100 to 105 mph.)

 

[ZGRider]

Well, being a "topper" my 1973 Kawasaki Mach III 500 2-stroke triple would blow the doors off any RD350 back then. But it handled so terribly that only a fool would try to find out. (I found out!)

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Well, being a "topper" my 1973 Kawasaki Mach III 500 2-stroke triple would blow the doors off any RD350 back then. But it handled so terribly that only a fool would try to find out. (I found out!)


Yes, as I said the guy who had the blue S3 500 triple could eat my lunch. Then when the Z1 came out, he traded the 500 and got one. Needless to say, my R5 couldn't hang with that thing, either.

The R5 and RD were good handling bikes.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: PT1
My 74 RD350 would blow the doors (if it had doors) off my 2006 TC88...that thing was lightning fast...

That was back in the day when I was stupid/brave enough to go that fast...

I had a 72 Yamaha R5 when I was a teenager that looked just like the one in the pic above. The R5 was the immediate predecessor to the RD350 and was lightning "quick." Anything over half throttle in the first three gears and it was all I could do to hold on. From stop light to stop light the only bikes in my neighborhood that could spank me with no sweat were a Kawasaki S3 and Z1. I could eat any Honda 350 or 400 and the new 4-stroke Kawasaki 400 with no problem. (I don't really think either the RD or R5 can be characterized as "fast" because they both would top out around 100 to 105 mph.)


My RD350 would hit 115mph...but it was so light it felt like it was going airborne.....

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Well, being a "topper" my 1973 Kawasaki Mach III 500 2-stroke triple would blow the doors off any RD350 back then. But it handled so terribly that only a fool would try to find out. (I found out!)


Yeah, one of my riding buds had a KAW MachIII...it would walk away from my RD350. Very fast.

 

[Dennis_E]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
(I don't really think either the RD or R5 can be characterized as "fast" because they both would top out around 100 to 105 mph.)

I thought 100 mph was plenty fast on that little bike!

Dennis

 

[Dennis_E]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Yeah, one of my riding buds had a KAW MachIII...it would walk away from my RD350. Very fast.

I lusted after two things in high school. One was a gal named Liz and the other was the Mach III.

I never got either one.

Cheers,
Dennis

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon

We can't dismiss the possibility that Harley intentionally clouds the issue to increase sale of their labeled oil.


+1 That is my take on the situation because they don't publish API specs on any of their branded lubricants. So, you are unable to compare other lubricants easily. Then you are left with all the statements to only use "genuine" Harley Davidson lubricants. What a crock!

HD poo pooed synthetic oil with the "bearing skate" nonsense for years until they realized they were losing oil sales to the other major branded synthetics. Suddenly, Syn3 was born...

Not a very good way to present technical specs to the consumer IMO.

Then again...HD has always been way behind the technology curve with their motorcycles so maybe they just have always had one 89 year old "lube guy" in the back room in Milwaukee who never knew there was synthetic oil.

One good example is their introduction of a six speed transmission in the Dyna series in 2006.

They touted it as this great new technology (which it always has been) but my 1974 Yamaha RD350 had a six speed transmission which at that time was new to the market.

As to the OP: S&S Engines specs Mobil1 Vtwin 20w50 as factory fill. So use it with 100% confidence.It exceeds the performance of Syn3 and HD360.


I have a few old Yamahas myself. The oldest is a '72 R5 with a five speed transmission. All others are '74 to '76 all with slick shifting six speed transmissions. Those old RDs were kicking HD butt over 35 years ago and the ones I've restored can dust most stock HDs still today. Here's a red '76 RD400 and a Yellow '74 RD350. Both very sporty bikes for their age...

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Well, being a "topper" my 1973 Kawasaki Mach III 500 2-stroke triple would blow the doors off any RD350 back then. But it handled so terribly that only a fool would try to find out. (I found out!)


Yeah, one of my riding buds had a KAW MachIII...it would walk away from my RD350. Very fast.


An RD wouldn't stand a chance against the Mach III in a straight line. Throw some tight curves into the equation and it was adiós amigo to the Mach III given equal riders. RDs were quick alright but that wasn't their forte. Handling is what made the humble little RDs great giant killers. Both my restored/enhanced RDs are 120+ mph bikes. However, at 100 mph the bikes are twitchy, which is pretty much normal for a bike designed to be very maneuverable and responsive. I have run them at speed and know the feeling. I run my Valkyrie at the same speed and there's no comparison. Get onto the twisties and the ancient RD will run away from the Valkyrie, which is a very good handling machine in it's own right despite it's size.

 

[Dennis_E]

Boraticus,

Nice, well kept bikes!

Dennis

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Dennis_E
Boraticus,

Nice, well kept bikes!

Dennis


Thanks Dennis.

Those two are my recent two winter's projects. Did the RD400 first then just completed the RD350 last week. I have them both insured and road ready. They're certainly no where near a match for today's modern sport bikes but they'll surprise just about anything else. Power to weight ratio is pretty good considering the engines are making between 50 to 55 h.p. at the rear wheel on bikes that weigh as little as 300 lbs.

I still have another RD350 that I plan to restore to original stock condition, a '72 R5 that I haven't decided what to do with yet. Thinking of either restoring to stock or go over the top with a hopped up liquid cooled RZ-350 engine. That's a couple winters away so I have time to think it over.

 

[harley145000]

boraticus,very nice bike's you have.they look like show pieces.

 

[TucsonDon]

Bikes from that era bring a tear to my eye ... lots of memories of a relatively carefree life riding motorcycles up and down country roads and across fields.

Way back when I had a little Honda CL-70. Seems tiny by today's standards, but I'll tell you this -- I had more fun on that thing than I can describe.

I'm lucky to still be alive, though -- I was foolishly reckless on the darn thing.