Do indy repair shops or even dealer service techs do advanced diagnostics?

The PCM would be covered under the 8 year emissions warranty for another 2 months but I doubt the Fiat dealer techs would have the experience to make that call.
Your best bet would be to befriend or bribe a Fiat tech to properly condemn your PCM.
 
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth. Engine goes into limp mode with the throttle light on and the P2172 code for High Airflow Vacuum Leak Detected (Instantaneous Accumulation). It goes limp only at idle such as when waiting at a traffic light. Shutting it off and restarting it cures the problem temporarily. If I don’t clear the code, eventually P0507 idle speed performance higher than expected sets, and then, P0106 MAP sensor sets.
What live data do you have access to with your current tool?

at the very least you could see if rpm and throttle position data reported would actually trigger the generic P0507 idle speed code
 
The only guys I know that take pride in this are Cline and Trav. Sounds like you threw the parts cannon and still have issues.

I think Trav is in MA and Cline in TX.
There are quite a few very skilled guys on the board, I am almost retired and don't do as much work as i used to. At 63 already collecting my pension (not US) and still running a small business I am choosy about the work I take on.
I started trade school at 13 so in Sept I have been doing this work every day of my life (except for accident and vacations) for 50 years, I think I have earned the right to be a bit fussy.

Still If all the stars are aligned and the job is interesting to me or its my own stuff I cant help myself, I have to do it, I'm like a old age crack addict, if I dont get 8-10 hrs a day in even though it might be short stretches I feel like my life is wasting away.
 
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth. Engine goes into limp mode with the throttle light on and the P2172 code for High Airflow Vacuum Leak Detected (Instantaneous Accumulation). It goes limp only at idle such as when waiting at a traffic light. Shutting it off and restarting it cures the problem temporarily. If I don’t clear the code, eventually P0507 idle speed performance higher than expected sets, and then, P0106 MAP sensor sets.

Going through the Fiat service manual which lists Possible Causes, VACUUM LEAK, MAP SENSOR, THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR/THROTTLE BODY, POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM).

I have smoked the car 4 times including with a high pressure turbo adaptor looking for a vacuum leak with no luck. I have replaced the throttle body and map sensor with oem parts. Checked the wiring between those two and the PCM and they are fine as well as the 5V signal. Unless I missed something, this leads to the PCM being bad? The PCM would be covered under the 8 year emissions warranty for another 2 months but I doubt the Fiat dealer techs would have the experience to make that call.

Does the MAP pid/value in scan data match what a Vacuum Gage reads when hooked to manifold vacuum......If it does.....The MAP sensor is reporting accurately.
P2172 diagnostic info states you should have a minimum 13 inches of vacuum at idle, If lower......You have a Vacuum leak, Exhaust restrictions, Or engine mechanical issues.

The P0507 would have me suspecting a Vacuum Leak & a quite large one to keep the PCM from controlling base idle speed. Don't forget about the PCV system & Brake Booster.

Not familiar with this vehicle, So I don't have any Silver Bullets to offer.....But, Keep in mind that the MAP PID may read in Absolute Pressure vs Gage Vacuum which are scaled backwards from each other.
 
Do dealers and service techs do “advanced diagnostics”? Not really.

It doesn’t pay. Customers won’t pay for a true diagnosis of the car. It can involve labor, lots of labor sometimes and some guys are slow at it. Their system/diagnostic tree is slow. It might take a little time. And in the end when they say it took them (whatever amount of hours), the customer won’t pay. The service writer/service manager can’t go to the customer and tell them...your bill is $800...$790 is labor, the other ten was a bad eye hook on a ground. So, they’ll need to either get creative with how they write it up, or they’ll tell the tech they can’t pay them the amount of time it took them. So, next the tech won’t waste his time, he’ll throw parts at it and not spend nearly as much time on it.

And a lab scope? Some guys love them! They usually teach the class and became teachers because they couldn’t make money in the trade. I once sat in a class (on lab scopes), actually many classes on lab scopes. And the instructor owned his own shop. He really didn’t DO WORK anymore - his main tech did that - instead he’d putter around all day long with a scope in the back, find the problem, fix the problem and then teach it to us in class. But we’d get fired if we did that (Spend all day diagnosing something). I think scopes can be very useful but most of us realize that if the repair has gotten to that point? We’re eating it. We’re not making as much as we should. Just the way it is.
 
Dealers are also facing some real challenges with diagnosis, Audi actually worked on an assistant when things didn't go as planned. I have not followed this technology but I suspect it will become more widespread the more complex the cars become.

 
Dealers are also facing some real challenges with diagnosis, Audi actually worked on an assistant when things didn't go as planned. I have not followed this technology but I suspect it will become more widespread the more complex the cars become.

Very cool. I know when I worked at the dealership we had a technician help line we could call if needed. It was getting to talk to a real person. I’m guessing it was someone at the factory reading known issues off a computer or something.
 
No, these are top mechanics and instructors that work for Audi, if need be they can get an factory engineer on the job. The robot has cameras and microphones that can see and hear the issue in real time and read all the data. Not to be confused with a help line.
 
No, these are top mechanics and instructors that work for Audi, if need be they can get an factory engineer on the job. The robot has cameras and microphones that can see and hear the issue in real time and read all the data. Not to be confused with a help line.
That is awesome. Everything has gotten so far advanced now you need that these days.
 
Do dealers and service techs do “advanced diagnostics”? Not really.

It doesn’t pay. Customers won’t pay for a true diagnosis of the car. It can involve labor, lots of labor sometimes and some guys are slow at it. Their system/diagnostic tree is slow. It might take a little time. And in the end when they say it took them (whatever amount of hours), the customer won’t pay. The service writer/service manager can’t go to the customer and tell them...your bill is $800...$790 is labor, the other ten was a bad eye hook on a ground. So, they’ll need to either get creative with how they write it up, or they’ll tell the tech they can’t pay them the amount of time it took them. So, next the tech won’t waste his time, he’ll throw parts at it and not spend nearly as much time on it.

And a lab scope? Some guys love them! They usually teach the class and became teachers because they couldn’t make money in the trade. I once sat in a class (on lab scopes), actually many classes on lab scopes. And the instructor owned his own shop. He really didn’t DO WORK anymore - his main tech did that - instead he’d putter around all day long with a scope in the back, find the problem, fix the problem and then teach it to us in class. But we’d get fired if we did that (Spend all day diagnosing something). I think scopes can be very useful but most of us realize that if the repair has gotten to that point? We’re eating it. We’re not making as much as we should. Just the way it is.

The more you use a scope....The faster you get at setting it up & testing components. I use mine for simple things that could be done with a Multimeter.....I didn't spend $6,000 to have it sit around collecting dust!

Customers DO pay, If they're unwilling to pay for my time.....They're welcome to take advantage of someone else. Nobody likes to work for free, And it's bewildering to expect a mechanic to do it.

On problem cars that have weird intermittent problems, I ask the customer to leave the vehicle for a extended period of time so I can mess with it after hours.....After I make mine & the shop's nut for the day, I'm more willing to cut them some slack on the hours billed. This is probably a discussion for another time/thread......But, Managing daily cash/work flow through a shop is very important & you can't let a problem vehicle interrupt that.
 
No, these are top mechanics and instructors that work for Audi, if need be they can get an factory engineer on the job. The robot has cameras and microphones that can see and hear the issue in real time and read all the data. Not to be confused with a help line.
I remember back in the early 90s having an issue with my 1984 Rabbit GTI Bosch CIS injection system and I was able to convince someone at the consumer toll free VW number to give me the phone number for the VW US dealer tech line...lol the tech on the line seemed puzzled as to how I got the number but went on to talk me through the trouble shooting but also had a catalog of trouble spots and I got a really hard to diagnose problem solved...😁
 
I’m in Potomac MD but have workshops/storage lots in Hagerstown MD and Frederickburg VA, so not general public. I don’t mind driving it a few hours to someone who knows their stuff and can get it done instead of the local dealers.

Heh, I'm just outside of Hagerstown. I'm not a diag tech though, I'd probably just hit something with a hammer and call it good :LOL:
 
Back
Top