Do ignition keys have to have chips in them?

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Originally Posted By: grampi
Why can't we have just regular ol' keys anymore? I took my daughter's Yaris key to a locksmith yesterday to have a spare ignition key made because the car didn't come with one. $90 for a stinkin copy...$90!!! All because it's got a chip in it. Do we really need keys with chips in them? What happened to having a spare key made for a couple bucks? Jeez!


You learned the hard way if purchased from a dealer to negotiate in two working keys. Otherwise you negotiate into a private sale.
 
I have a 2000, a 2003, a 2004 and a 2008, and all use $3 keys.

smile.gif
 
Hit up the Toyota forums to see if they have any cheap way to program the 2nd key.

I know you can buy the tool to do Ford keys for $20. Still works out to ~$40 total when you add in a genuine key with blank chip and cutting it.

In light of that, $90 isn't too bad.
 
True, but you did know how many keys you got. If you bought from a dealer, two working keys that you can drive off with can be part of the deal.

We did that with our 2002 Toyota Sienna. It came with one key and it was a chipped key. The dealer, (A Toyota dealer no less) was trying to get a regular key to work when I suggested that they might check to see if they needed a security key.

They finally cut one and had a tech do whatever was needed. I gave my wife one and I took the other. We both tried out keys individually. One of us inside the vehicle, the other inside the building. When we were satisfied both keys could be used for driving, we left.

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: raytseng
well,
This was partly on you. All new cars come with 2keys. So I'm assuming you bought the car used.

Everything in a sale is negotiable. You should have negotiated with the person you bought the car from to take $90 off the price if he only had 1 key to give you.

Now you know, if you buy a used car with only 1 key; consider that in the purchase price. Just as if it comes with a flat or worn tires.


For one thing, I didn't know that the keys for all newer vehicles come with a chip, and secondly, I had no idea getting a copy made would run $90...live and learn I guess...
 
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
The chips are a pain. The 3.8 was one of the earliest model GM with a chip. Heck my 95 has one. But given this is many generations ago compared to modern chips.

They are know to be finicky they have a auto kill switch that lasts 5-10 mins if you try and turn the car over to many times and the computer can't read the chip.

Those were resistor keys. They were actually pretty easy to clone by inserting the proper resistance into the key. And back with that generation I'm thinking the door/trunk key was separate from the ignition key. My dad had a '96 Regal Custom and I never got a spare key from him, although I did for his other cars.

vats.jpeg


My wife finally found the keys to her 2002 Civic along with a remote. I was wondering if we would ever buy another key and remote at the dealer. Before then, I made a couple of copies of her key, but that would just open the door/trunk in an emergency, and maybe even set off the alarm in the process.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Pretty much what everyone else in this thread has said. Chipped keys have made traditional auto theft a thing of the past, which is a good thing. There is a simple solution. Most cars come with 2 keys.

My '95 Integra GS-R was stolen, stripped for parts, then abandoned. Got a nice insurance settlement. However, it was considered a fairly desirable car for parts (especially since they would bolt onto Civics) although Civics were also stolen in high numbers. You don't really hear that much about newer Civics being stolen.

As for my car being stolen - I went to the impound yard (with a signed police release form from the recovering department) to grab whatever personal effects I wanted. I'd heard the description but it wasn't completely accurate. They'd actually taken all the seats including the rear buckets. The driver seat had a huge busted seam and they still took it - probably after driving it to the abandonment site. And for whatever reason they took the pristine lighter plug (a real one and not a plastic cover) but left behing a $5 bill.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
My 89 firebird had 'em. The hack is to put an ohmmeter on the "pellet" and order a new key blank with those ohms off ebay. Last time I had to, blank plus cutting came in under $10.

The 1st gen GM VATS system was extremely crude compared to modern systems that use some sort of RFID.

http://www.lockmasters.com/ecommerce/site/pdfs/TT4002 Vats Overview Article.pdf

The first car to get the resistor key was the '86 Corvette. Apparently all it did was slow someone down, but I wouldn't expect that car thief is going to wait 10 minutes for the thing to reset and try again.
 
I drive an 05 Pontiac Vibe. No chip in the key. Guess I better sleep on the front porch so nobody steals it from my driveway.


Wait, maybe I shouldn't have said that.
 
Originally Posted By: jcwit
I drive an 05 Pontiac Vibe. No chip in the key. Guess I better sleep on the front porch so nobody steals it from my driveway.


Wait, maybe I shouldn't have said that.

You realize that it's a Toyota key system, right?

However, it may have some sort of RFID immobilizer system like most cars do these days. The '05 seems to be before this was included.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
The chips are a pain. The 3.8 was one of the earliest model GM with a chip. Heck my 95 has one. But given this is many generations ago compared to modern chips.

They are know to be finicky they have a auto kill switch that lasts 5-10 mins if you try and turn the car over to many times and the computer can't read the chip.

Those were resistor keys. They were actually pretty easy to clone by inserting the proper resistance into the key. And back with that generation I'm thinking the door/trunk key was separate from the ignition key. My dad had a '96 Regal Custom and I never got a spare key from him, although I did for his other cars.

vats.jpeg


My wife finally found the keys to her 2002 Civic along with a remote. I was wondering if we would ever buy another key and remote at the dealer. Before then, I made a couple of copies of her key, but that would just open the door/trunk in an emergency, and maybe even set off the alarm in the process.


Yep your correct I tend to not really pay attention. Its all the same to me but you are correct.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
The chips are a pain. The 3.8 was one of the earliest model GM with a chip. Heck my 95 has one. But given this is many generations ago compared to modern chips.

They are know to be finicky they have a auto kill switch that lasts 5-10 mins if you try and turn the car over to many times and the computer can't read the chip.

Those were resistor keys. They were actually pretty easy to clone by inserting the proper resistance into the key. And back with that generation I'm thinking the door/trunk key was separate from the ignition key. My dad had a '96 Regal Custom and I never got a spare key from him, although I did for his other cars.

vats.jpeg


My wife finally found the keys to her 2002 Civic along with a remote. I was wondering if we would ever buy another key and remote at the dealer. Before then, I made a couple of copies of her key, but that would just open the door/trunk in an emergency, and maybe even set off the alarm in the process.

That is a photo of a resistor key, that chip is not a chip. It works with VATS, the resistor completes a circuit. GM keys with a chip say PK3 or have a circle with a plus sign inside of it. That is GM Passlock. Those need to be programmed.
key.jpg

key2.jpg

To get a resistor key, take a meter and find the resistance of the resistor in the key. Then get a blank with the proper resistance and have it cut. Cost about nine bucks. These keys were cheap...VATS as it gets older kind of sucks, but easy to bypass or fix.
 
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: y_p_w


vats.jpeg


My wife finally found the keys to her 2002 Civic along with a remote. I was wondering if we would ever buy another key and remote at the dealer. Before then, I made a couple of copies of her key, but that would just open the door/trunk in an emergency, and maybe even set off the alarm in the process.

That is a photo of a resistor key, that chip is not a chip. It works with VATS, the resistor completes a circuit. GM keys with a chip say PK3 or have a circle with a plus sign inside of it. That is GM Passlock. Those need to be programmed.
key.jpg

key2.jpg

To get a resistor key, take a meter and find the resistance of the resistor in the key. Then get a blank with the proper resistance and have it cut. Cost about nine bucks. These keys were cheap...VATS as it gets older kind of sucks, but easy to bypass or fix.

I understood that it didn't simply complete a circuit, but that there was a meter in the system that actually measured the resistance and threw a kill switch if it didn't match up. The document I found said that there were only 15 resistance values for the first generation, although the smallest was removed from later versions because it wasn't terribly reliable to use that value.

Conceptually it wouldn't be that hard for a thief to have all 14/15 resistance values and try them all out. However, the kill switch was supposed to eat up time that a thief probably won't have to escape suspicion or where the owner might come back. I suppose the car could be towed, and then the thief just works on it by trying resistance values one at a time.
 
Originally Posted By: splinter
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
My '95 Integra GS-R was stolen, stripped for parts, then abandoned...


Ouch.

frown.gif


Turned out better than you'd think after the initial shock and feeling of being violated wore off.

I'd already bought a WRX and this was now a second car. It had over 135K miles on the odo and was consuming a little bit of oil. I didn't drive it much and probably should have worried about the 72 hour parking rule from parking it on the street and not moving it much; when I got the release from the police dept, the woman in line ahead of me was trying to get her car out of impound for a 72 hour violation. I was already looking to sell it.

The insurance settlement was better than I could get selling the car, and the adjuster said as much. I got my prorated insurance premium refunded since I no longer owned the car. They paid out my prorated registration fee. Not only that, but my rates didn't go up because I wasn't considered at fault for the theft.

However, all the stuff that was stolen kind of boggled my mind. I get that Integra alloy wheels are a popular mod for Civics. I didn't get that all the seats were gone. I'm not sure what an instrument cluster would do. And the most valuable easy to remove parts left behind were the airbags. And they took a lighter plug. Also - the only thing taken under the hood was the power steering pump, and that was original. Worth maybe $20 to a rebuilder.
 
Work-arounds. On Fords, if you have 2 chipped keys, you can get a chipped key off someplace like E-bay, get it cut at the hardware store, and program it yourself. Also, I've heard if you have a cut regular key, if you tape the chipped key to the underside of the steering column, you can use the regular key to start the vehicle--I did this with Sil's Mitsubishi when she broke/bent the chipped key and only had a regular key---but I guess it kind of defeats the anti-theft safety.
 
I got a replacement Smart key from a lock shop for 50 bucks. I put an original key in the car ( Chevy) turned to 'on' for maybe 10 secs, removed the original key and put in the new key and it was programmed. Pretty easy.
 
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