Do I need to clean with Kreen, MMO, ARX+?

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Currently I have an '07 Sonata 2.4L with 102k on it and an '03 Sequoia with 4.7L with 98K. Both vehicles have been on M1, PP and PU since about 3k miles of life. OCI's are at about 7500, filters have been Factory or PureOne. Currently neither burns or leaks oil. Both have had multiple UOA's that were very good. The Sonata shows some slightly higher iron and other metal than "average" from real early which according to Blackstone is probably from higher RPM's (It's a stick shift for a reason grin ). The oils from both always come out dark brown (not black but obviously not new). No valve covers have been pulled. I really haven't checked in Sequoia as the fill has a tube that sticks up 4" to see inside. On the Sonata when I looked yesterday in fill port the aluminum looks brand new, no staining etc. I'll try to get a pic one day soon. Neither of these vehicles has had any flushes done. Both have seen some BG44k in the tanks. Mileage is as it was brand new if not slightly better. My past experience was on my '93 Corolla (also stick shift). It used to get 3k oil changes with dino QS and fram filters until I learned better. I had done maybe every 18 months one of the Gunk pour in, run 20 min,drain flushes. Oil stayed clean for long intervals after change and again always med/dark brown. At around 100k it started burning 1qt/1k and I just topped it every fill up for the next 70k doing same oil change regimen . Somebody then recommended the old ARX so I tried it. It did create the oil seeping no leaks that resealed after. Oil usage went to 1/4qt/every 1k and stayed that way until car was totaled at 220k (but running perfect). After the ARX I started using M1/PP in it and factory filters. When I junked the car I yanked valve cover off and saw a bunch of staining but almost zero gunk anywhere so was happy with results of at least it's final life. When totaled it was getting 41mpg highway on trips, 30+ under "normal" (read sees 5500+ rpm a lot in lower gears). Back to Sonata and Sequoia, I want to try and avoid the stuck oil rings so just like BG44k (or Kreen/GO AIO/Regane see other thread), I want to try some preventative measures and maybe do some cleanings to soften up any carbon deposits. The Corolla I'm sure also saw some MMO in oil and Tank over the years and MANY techrons that I don't think did anything compared to BG44k. Artems Camry thread seeing his was mostly M1's has me a little concerned as that's what the Sequoia saw most. PP is probably most of what both cars have seen for last 6 years with some M1 and PU used when it was on sale. The PP had more sales at walmart otherwise it would have been M1. Sequoia is currently doing about 1 OCI/year at 7500, Sonata 2-3 OCI/year also at 7500. Advice/suggestions welcomed and appreciated, not looking to mail order (except maybe Kreen) so need to be available local. The TC-W3 threads are another whole direction I might be interested in. Does it need to be Pennzoil or will the Supertech make it?
 
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As far as the tc-w3 goes you can use any brand name,so yes supertech is fine. Now since you have stated that the engines have only ever gotten m1 ,PU and pp I doubt very much there will be any deposit issues so I suggest adding nothing to your oil. If you are concerned about gaskets drying out then I suggest liqui-moly motor oil saver. It will help any potential gasket issues. You've used a top quality oil throughout these vehicles lives so I would be very surprised to learn there were any deposits anywhere. Pop off a valve cover and look. Then you can at least make an informed decision on whether or not you need an additive,instead of just taking a shot in the dark.
 
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I'd make sure I needed a cleaning before I did any cleaning, or anything else for that matter. If you do need a cleaning run over to the local Walmart and grab some MMO. It's cheap, fast, and easy. You've already used MMO so its really a no brainer for you, that's if cleaning is even needed. If you can't check to see if cleaning is needed and feel the need for a quick maintenance cleaning add a pint of MMO for the last 1,000-1,500 miles of the current OCI. You'll be GTG.
 
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Tried all the oils and cleaners you discuss on various engines. For my old Toyotas IMO the cleanest, least varnish has been Mobil 1 High mileage full syn. If you read the PDS they claim extra cleaners. For additives - Kreen cleaned some, MMO cleaned some, ARX cleaned none. MMO wins because of cost, ease of use, and availability (Kreen is toxic and requires special handling). MMO will not work miracles, but does well as a maintenance additive at the end of oil changes. Prefer PEA adds for fuel system/combustion cleaning based on personal results and research. Its hard to "feel" the results of PEA cleaners other than teardown visual inspection before and after. Using butt dyno to determine if a fuel cleaner worked is inaccurate because depending on whats in the fuel cleaner, you may get a euphoric placebo effect. For example Seafoam. It has 20% IPA. Thats going to feel like it did something because you spiked your octane levels with alcohol. Going to run better on the higher octane, but gone the next tank. The PEA adds like techron wont give you that, its clean or its not. Not exactly sure what BG44k is made of, but I would not say its placebo. Think it works. I doubt there would be any oil or combustion ring coking based on what you've stated. But think a maintenance dose of your favorite Fuel system cleaner at the end of your OCI, a pint of MMO every other OCI is a wise decision. Give m1 HM 5w30 a try, your Toyota should like it. Both your Asian engines should like it.
 
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Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
Artems Camry thread seeing his was mostly M1's has me a little concerned as that's what the Sequoia saw most.
Artem has a Fuel Dillution problem, he drives this vehicle very hard, up in the higher rpm ranges. It sounds like you have used some Fuel System Cleaners, not sure if Artem was using any cleaners in his tank. When you did your UOA's was there quite a bit of fuel in your oil?
 
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Also you mentioned visible oil quality. The oils you mentioned thats a normal color, they have good deposit cleaning and suspension. What made the biggest eye pleasing difference for me was the use of a 99% @20u or better synthetic media oil filter. Did not think it would make much of a difference, but it does (to my eyes anyways).
 
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Originally Posted By: Doog
Go to a 5000 OCI with PP or PU and do nothing else.
+1 Let the detergents in the oil do all the work, and save your money on the additives.
 

Sequoiasoon

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Clevy- Since I don't have any leak issues I'd rather not pop one off and chance creating one. does AAP rent a borescope? Donald- not sure I want to get into the whole ARX method again. though it did work on the Corolla. Demarpaint- I'll need to wait for next oil changes as both are due now at about 7500. Might go that route as it's easy. Leakyseals- I'll have to see what next sales bring for M1. I haven't seen the HM on sale. I just bought some 5 qt jugs of PP which should last me a year (multiple addresses). The BG44k was a definite butt meter and stayed for many tanks afterward. mileage #'s went up some and stayed. Doog- 7500 OCI have been coming in good and blackstone 10k should be no issue. Trying to be green and frugal. V8man- no fuel dilution issues in any samples from either car. Rumor has it the rev limiter on the Sonata kicks in at about 6200rpm if you know what I mean. Leaky seals- EAO or a different one? Also both cars use a filtermag and it does catch some extra junk when I cut them open.
 
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Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
Clevy- Since I don't have any leak issues I'd rather not pop one off and chance creating one. does AAP rent a borescope? Donald- not sure I want to get into the whole ARX method again. though it did work on the Corolla. Demarpaint- I'll need to wait for next oil changes as both are due now at about 7500. Might go that route as it's easy. Leakyseals- I'll have to see what next sales bring for M1. I haven't seen the HM on sale. I just bought some 5 qt jugs of PP which should last me a year (multiple addresses). The BG44k was a definite butt meter and stayed for many tanks afterward. mileage #'s went up some and stayed. Doog- 7500 OCI have been coming in good and blackstone 10k should be no issue. Trying to be green and frugal. V8man- no fuel dilution issues in any samples from either car. Rumor has it the rev limiter on the Sonata kicks in at about 6200rpm if you know what I mean. Leaky seals- EAO or a different one? Also both cars use a filtermag and it does catch some extra junk when I cut them open.
Looks like Walmart dropped the price of PP to $22.50 permanently. All flavors of M1 are $24.97 which dropped a year ago, think thats as low as it will get. I'm currently running 99% @20u synthetic Ultra's in both cars in my sig. They appear to get more efficient the longer they are used. Last check oil "looked" cleaner than 5k ago. But thats just a guess. Your at 98% @ 20u with EAO (I think) so not sure what difference 99+ would bring. Unless your up to experimenting, EAO is as good as it gets.
 
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Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
Leakyseals- I'll have to see what next sales bring for M1. I haven't seen the HM on sale. I just bought some 5 qt jugs of PP which should last me a year (multiple addresses). The BG44k was a definite butt meter and stayed for many tanks afterward. mileage #'s went up some and stayed.
I'm not leaky but, I see you're from NY. Pep Boys has a coupon that was taken down from their site. Its on the board in this thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD you can print it, and use it, they are still accepting it. Not bad for any flavor Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 filter. You might want to check it out.
 
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Originally Posted By: Donald
Run the Auto-Rx Plus maint. program.
That comes out to about 9 bucks every OCI using 4 oz. Putting $9 into a higher quality oil will produce worlds better results. From PYB to PU is about $9. Honestly which would you rather have PYB with 4oz of some additive regardless of what it is or who made it or PU for the same money?
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Honestly which would you rather have PYB with 4oz of some additive regardless of what it is or who made it or PU for the same money?
That's hard to argue with!
 
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That statement is very hard to argue with-PYB with whatever cleaning additive you buy or PU with its proven cleaning ability (engine sequence tests) for about $9.00 above the cost of the PYB. And if you do decide to use a cleaning product, MMO is cheap and readily available and Kreen is cheaper than Auto-RX. Heck, try a good cleaning motor oil first. Pennzoil has actual engine sequence data for its motor oils and their cleaning ability. Motor oil alone might be able to do any cleaning necessary. And you can always easily add some MMO at low cost if you feel the motor oil needs some help. Or for faster cleaning order some Kreen. No elaborate cleaning and rinse cycles and all of that. You don't have to use a certain type of motor oil, etc. Kreen should work pretty good with any motor oil, including low cost conventional motor oils. But it might work best with the Pennzoil synthetics or Mobil 1 HM.
 
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I don't know how anybody can argue with the engine sequence data that Pennzoil has to demonstrate the cleaning ability of their motor oils. And there are probably other motor oils that clean really good, such as Mobil 1 HM. There is no special engine cleaner that I am aware of that has engine sequence data to back up its claims. So motor oil itself (just an oil change) can potentially clean an engine well enough. Beyond that somebody could use the motor oil and buy some MMO cheaply at a local Wal-Mart and maybe improve the cleaning ability of the oil alone. Or order some Kreen. Or you could use the MMO or Kreen in low cost conventional motor oil. Either way, it is a cheaper and probably better way to go for trying to get an engine cleaned. And what could be safer than just using motor oil that is approved anyway? You just use a different motor oil at your next oil change. It could not be simpler. In the very least giving a good cleaning motor oil a chance would be a good first step. If you decided you needed more than you could use a special engine cleaner.
 

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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm not leaky but, I see you're from NY. Pep Boys has a coupon that was taken down from their site. Its on the board in this thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD you can print it, and use it, they are still accepting it. Not bad for any flavor Mobil 1 and a Mobil 1 filter. You might want to check it out.
THANKS! I printed the Mobil coupon (as well as the pure one BOGO) and went to Pepboys. Now I have a question or two. The coupon covers Reg, EP, ESP, HM. Recommendations on here included going to M1 HM. The HM at Pepboys does not come in 5W-20 that my Sonata calls for. It says 5W30 can be used but for mileage 5W20 recommended. I picked up the 5qts 5W30 HM as I can use it in the Sequoia anyway. What is M1 ESP? I searched threads but couldn't find much. Bottle says better for sensors or something like that. It's $3 more per quart (with out coupon) But I think I saw it 5W20. I'll get pics up tonight. A little more info. The Sonata 2.4L is my work vehicle. It daily sees a 25 mile trip to work and then back mostly highway. The Sequoia 4.7L gets a lot of short trip (about 2 miles to wifes job) but I do use it at least once/month for longer intervals. It's also the winter trip vehicle skiing and scouts all year so does get at least 1/2 hour run times once per month.
 

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Harder with the pictures but using bright LED flashlight and looking through ports and around, everything is bright shiny silver. Inside the fill tube on Sequoia there is some yellow staining but since no oil flows here just vapors mostly I guess that would be expected. The "3" inside is real easy to see and shiny. I don't want to take any covers off since the worms are very happy in their sealed cans with no leaks or seepage that I can see. Motors are cleaned with simple green a couple times a year so leaks are easy to spot. With 7500 OCI I'm not using any oil on either vehicle so no makeup is needed. All my UOA's came back saying I could extend some but with the Sequoia that's one change per year which I don't want to go past. On the Sonata it's 2 most 3 but since it also sees higher rpms changing is easy to get more wear items out. All clean and shiny but how do I know about what gets behind rings like on my Corolla? Maybe not a concern as they both have been quality oils since early. Corolla had dino (name brands) for many years but was on a 3k OCI Sonata through oil fill 2 pics Sequoia fill tube 4.5" high Through tube Through tube with flashlight
 
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Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
Harder with the pictures but using bright LED flashlight and looking through ports and around, everything is bright shiny silver. Inside the fill tube on Sequoia there is some yellow staining but since no oil flows here just vapors mostly I guess that would be expected. The "3" inside is real easy to see and shiny. I don't want to take any covers off since the worms are very happy in their sealed cans with no leaks or seepage that I can see. Motors are cleaned with simple green a couple times a year so leaks are easy to spot. With 7500 OCI I'm not using any oil on either vehicle so no makeup is needed. All my UOA's came back saying I could extend some but with the Sequoia that's one change per year which I don't want to go past. On the Sonata it's 2 most 3 but since it also sees higher rpms changing is easy to get more wear items out. All clean and shiny but how do I know about what gets behind rings like on my Corolla? Maybe not a concern as they both have been quality oils since early. Corolla had dino (name brands) for many years but was on a 3k OCI Sonata through oil fill 2 pics Sequoia fill tube 4.5" high Through tube Through tube with flashlight
If the vehicle isn't consuming any oil then I guarantee that the rings are clean as a whistle. If your rings were coked up you would be consuming oil to some degree. Everything looks good to me. If it isn't broken...........
 
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