Dino 5-30's have a shearing problem?

[Kelton]

There is some chatter about shearing and dino 5-30s... Pennzoil in particular.

I guess I'm going with high moly numbers, so I bought some Pennzoil 5-30 for my CR-V, but not...of course, I see some complaints about the rather quick shearing and possibility of sludge from this effect. Some say serious shearing occurs in under 1000 miles.

So are there any other good high moly 5-30s without quick shearing problems? I do habitually change my oil often, but not after only 1000 miles!

Kelton

 

[Pablo]

Please site references to this shearing problem. I think 5W-30 is one of the weaker spreads - for dino in particular - however this was more a thing of the past. I can't say Pennzoil is a bad actor in this department.

Why do you have to have moly? Amsoil, GC and Esso ave shown great wear numbers without moly.

I'm not 100% convinced an oil that shears somewhat turns into a sludge monster - other than in the cases of severe neglect.

 

[DR Racing]

Simple solution if you stay in Florida use 10w-30 it won't shear as much. You don't need a 5w in a warm climate especially in the summer. Dan

 

[Blue99]

The API energy conserving starburst label practically mandates that a 5W-20, 5W-30 & 10W-30 be designed to shear, to pass the Sequence VIB fuel economy test.

Out of curiosity, Kelton, what are you seeing that links sludge to this shearing event & in particular, Pennzoil?

 

[Kelton]

I was just reading this stuff about Penn 5-30 shearing yesterday.... it was after I did an actual search here for it. The discussion also included some chat of SL and SM.

Thanks for the quick responses, and I'll try to re-look for the conversation when I get back. I'm getting nagged to go shopping at the moment!

I'm obviously a novice, but have seen lots of happy talk about high moly being good for new Honda's. If there are great 'good on Honda' oils out there w/ low moly, I'm all ears! I think I'd like to go with either a thick *-20 or a thin 10-30.

Kelton

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by Blue99:
The API energy conserving starburst label practically mandates that a 5W-20, 5W-30 & 10W-30 be designed to shear, to pass the Sequence VIB fuel economy test.

Out of curiosity, Kelton, what are you seeing that links sludge to this shearing event & in particular, Pennzoil?

---

How do synthetics such as Mobil 1 accomplish this?

-T

 

[sjlee]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelton:
If there are great 'good on Honda' oils out there w/ low moly, I'm all ears! I think I'd like to go with either a thick *-20 or a thin 10-30.

Kelton

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In my Acura Integra, I exclusively used 5W-30 Castrol GTX in it up until 100k miles. Over the past couple years, I've started trying other oils (whatever is on sale)... Mobil Drive Clean, Quaker State, Havoline and Chevron. I now have over 143k miles on it and haven't had any oil related problems.

How often do you plan on changing your oil? If you are going to have it done relatively often (every 5k miles or less), then I think you'll be fine using just about any oil.

 

[cousincletus]

I would use 10W-30 all year.

 

[Kelton]

When we were shopping, I picked up a 5qt jug of Pennz 10-30 for $7.77 (it says SM rather than SL on the back).

Actually, I thought it was 4qts and just about poured the whole think in the engine (which takes 4.4qts. Hopefully, my car will enjoy this oil. I change the oil every 3-4000 miles.

Interestingly, the manual says park on level ground when changing oil, but I have found that after all the oil is "apparently" drained on level ground....I can jack up the front, and oil starts pouring out again! Why would they advise you to park in a manner that doesn't empty all the oil?

Kelton

 

[y_p_w]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelton:
When we were shopping, I picked up a 5qt jug of Pennz 10-30 for $7.77 (it says SM rather than SL on the back).

Actually, I thought it was 4qts and just about poured the whole think in the engine (which takes 4.4qts. Hopefully, my car will enjoy this oil. I change the oil every 3-4000 miles.

Interestingly, the manual says park on level ground when changing oil, but I have found that after all the oil is "apparently" drained on level ground....I can jack up the front, and oil starts pouring out again! Why would they advise you to park in a manner that doesn't empty all the oil?

Kelton

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Perhaps contrary to traditional thinking, draining out ALL of the crankcase oil isn't the greatest idea. I've heard that (heat-activated) ZDDP can take several hundred miles to oxidize before it's fully effective. An Exxon fuel/lube chemist name Edward Kollin gave that little tidbit in some NG a few years back. He ran one of their testing labs, and they often had a slightly higher rate of wear for a few hundred miles after an oil change.

Of course early on with my WRX I tried to do some more or less complete flushes by running a quart of fresh oil at the end of the drain with the plug off.

 

[farrarfan1]

Here is a recent UOA on Pennzoil 10W30 that basically sheared down to 20W range.
10W30's ain't always the answer...

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002524

 

[sjlee]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelton:
Interestingly, the manual says park on level ground when changing oil, but I have found that after all the oil is "apparently" drained on level ground....I can jack up the front, and oil starts pouring out again! Why would they advise you to park in a manner that doesn't empty all the oil?

Kelton

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Probably for safety's sake, especially if you're using jackstands. If the car is parked on an incline, there's a risk that it could roll back of the jackstands.

In any case, what little oil is left won't make a difference.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Shearing may increase with a dino 5W-30 spread, but it's not a (quote) "problem" with a typical SM oil under normal driving conditions/weather/engine care.

 

[Blue99]

quote:

---

How do synthetics such as Mobil 1 accomplish this?

-T

---

T-Kieth, I don't really have a good answer for you in regards to M1, my comments were more in reference to dino's.

After a total of 96 hours of run time at 250F or greater, shearing, for dino oils, is going to be the primary tool for passing the Sequence VIB test.

The GF-4 Sequence VIB test is run in 2 stages.

Stage 1 is 16 hours of aging, at 125C(257F) and 1500 rpm, followed by roughly 20-25 minutes of measured fuel consumption at various rpm & temperature levels.

Stage 2 is an additional 80 hours of aging at 135C(275F) and 2250 rpm followed again by the same fuel economy test sequence.

The candidate oil test results are compared to a base oil, run in the same engine, immediately before & after the candidate oil.

A passing grade is approximately a 2% fuel economy increase for Stage 1 and 1.5% for Stage 2.

Friction modifiers are no doubt the chief performance additive to generate the fuel economy gains in Stage 1. Shearing, of dino oils, will be a positive effect in Stage 2.