Diesel article in USAToday

[bulwnkl]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kestas:
I remember the diesel fever back in the early 80's. Chrysler predicted back then that 25% of the market would be diesel. The idea was promptly killed by lower fuel prices.

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Yes, and it's too bad, too. Diesels offer everything in terms of performance/drivability that the American market wants:

1) Very high power just off idle (most guys say "high-torque," but only power moves a vehicle so I say high power) like a good big-block V-8,

2) New designs extremely quiet,

3) Excellent fuel-economy; better than a hybrid,

4) Lower TCO (cheaper overall) than a hybrid,

5) Capable of very low emissions,

6) Usually much better longevity than a gasoline engine (good for the 10th and 11th owners

,

7) Some kind of non-sensical connection to being a trucker.

 

[1sttruck]

My 2003 truck has an 'evil CARB' engine in it that meets California emmisions. It's down 10 hp compared to the 48 state motors as it's set up to run cooler, it also has a catalytic converter on it, but from what I've read since it runs cooler it might be one of the most durable engines in that line. The newer models are 50 state with no power difference, but most seem to get worse mileage.

The difference in smell is probably due to the difference in displacement as larger diesels move lots of air; the large exhausts aren't for show.

 

[bulwnkl]

The smell will always accompany a non-catalyzed diesel that isn't working hard. Any diesel engine that's really working will not have bluish smoke nor will it have that cold-diesel stench (unless the engine's seriously worn).

Out of curiosity, what kind of pickup do you have, 1sttruck? What's the factory power rating for the 49-state ones versus yours?

 

[opus1]

Heck, I'll take the smell of diesel exhaust over the smell from an out-of-tune gas engine any day!

 

[1sttruck]

The 2003 standard engine put out 245 hp with 460 ft lbs of torque, the CARB engine 235 hp with 460 ft lbs of torque, and the high output 305 hp with 555 ft lbs of torque.

Peak HP doesn't indicate much for moving loads. As an example some of the smaller heavy duty diesels may only be rated for 350 hp, a figure that a lot cars achieve, but they may be putting out 1500 ft lbs of torque for starters. When you do the numbers the high torque provides good hp at low rpm and that's what moves heavy loads, but the convention of only reporting peak hp doesn't tell much about how much work the engine can do. The hp may not vary that much going from a hot 3 liter gas engine to a 6 liter medium duty diesel to an 11 liter heavy duty diesel, but the torque may vary an order of magnitude. That's why 'torque' is what a lot of truck owners talk about.

 

[JeepZJ4.0]

quote:

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Originally posted by srivett:
I just checked the specs on the Liberty Diesel and it comes standard with an automatic which is very disappointing. DC obviously doesn't understand the point of having a diesel engine so they may as well pull the product off the market.
#1 mileage - you need a stick to get that
#2 longevity - you need a stick once again
#3 low maintenance - you need a stick once again and you definately don't want a daimler auto!!!!
#4 responsiveness - you won't be getting much throttle response with a diesel driven auto

Steve

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The transmission they are using is very very responsive. I believe they are using the 545RFE transmission. This is the same transmission that can be found in V8 powered Grand Cherokees. It's is the most responsive transmission I've ever used. No second guessing. Take my word for it. It really harnesses the full potential of that 295ft/lbs engine. Have your driven a diesel liberty? If you haven't then you are making some big assumptions.

 

[buster]

I hope we really start to see more diesels then Hybrids.

 

[JavaMan]

More diesel vehicles will probably just mean higher diesel prices. I know I'm not looking at the big picture, but, if the price increase eats up any savings due to increased vehicle mileage why bother.

 

[Kestas]

Javaman has a point. The history of diesel fuel (or kerosene) is that it was a byproduct of gasoline production, and almost considered waste until the transportation industry quickly decided that diesel engines could make use of the abundance of cheap kerosene. Since then we've been calling it diesel fuel.

Modern demand is driving the price of diesel fuel sky high because now refiners have to gear up to produce a higher ratio of kerosene to gasoline.

 

[pajim17057]

Why would anyone want a diesel? When diesel is .20 more per gallon then 93 unleaded. And .40 more then regular. What are you really saving?

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by pajim17057:
Why would anyone want a diesel? When diesel is .20 more per gallon then 93 unleaded. And .40 more then regular. What are you really saving?

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Part of that price difference is higher taxes on diesel, if the gumnt decide we should be driving diesels that's subject to change.

All else being equal, a diesel will burn about 30-35% less fuel doing the same job as a gas engine.

 

[1sttruck]

A neighbor got rid of his F250 gasser with less than 100k miles on it as it was done for. A friend's parents replaced their Chevy gasser with less than 90k miles on it for the same reason. I've heard of a couple of Dodges hitting 1M miles, and 500k isn't that uncommon. I get 17mpg to 18 mpg in town, and so far 20mpg on the highway, but I think I could do low 20s in the flatlands. This is with a 3/4 ton quad cab 4x4, and it doesn't seem to matter what the payload is. Towing is different, a friend got about 10mpg towing 8k at 70mph in his Dodge, but a coworker gets 2mpg in her F250 gasser when towing their big boat.

There's still lots of good reasons to own a diesel.

 

[wulimaster]

quote:

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Originally posted by pajim17057:
Why would anyone want a diesel? When diesel is .20 more per gallon then 93 unleaded. And .40 more then regular. What are you really saving?

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Historically, diesel has been much cheaper in the spring to fall season and prices would go up for the winter when heating oil would compete for the same basestock.

In the last 2 years since the price hikes in crude the oil companies have been holding the prices down on gas and getting their profits from diesel. I suspect this is because the consumers would notice the effect on their pocketbook more directly than waiting for the higher transportation costs to trickle down to the consumer prices.

Last week or so I read that we were exporting diesel to Chile from California. I believe gas is currently being subsidized by higher diesel profits so as not to affect the consumers spending habits directly. Diesel should be 20 cents cheaper than 87 octane but it is not.

Go to opis.net to see who is benefitting. Refinery costs are up 400% over 3 years ago for gasoline yet diesel is commanding a higher price.

I believe we have reached "plateau oil".

 

[Pick]

pajim17057, I calculated that as long as diesel is less than a dollar per gallon more than gasoline, it is cheaper to run my Duramax over comparable gas engine.

srivett, you have obviously never ridden in a Duramax/Allison equipped pickup truck. My stock Duramax blew the doors off my neighbors "Chipped" dual exaust 6.0 L gasser.

 

[Razl]

I was so close to buying a Liberty CRD for my wife (she loves the look) but decided in the end to keep the Honda CRV. That diesel engine might last 500,000 miles but with the Liberty's poor reliability history, the rest of it (including tranny as already mentioned) sure wouldn't.

I really want a diesel, but don't like any of the current offerings. The Passat is probably at the top of my list for what's offered now in the US market, but I can wait for more diesels to [hopefully] come.

 

[srivett]

Pick: Two summers ago we had a brand new extended cab Duramax 3/4 ton. It was a rental and but it faired a lot better than the el-cheapo Hemi we had before it. For a comparison the Hemi was really squirley but I found the Duramax to handle like a tugboat. Then again, it was always loaded down with a full box of traffic cones. The neatest thing about it was that the speedo worked properly in reverse! It would only do 40 km/hr in reverse which was a PITA since you have to drive in reverse to pick up the cones. The older gas F150 we had would fly in reverse.

It got repo'd a week after the Hemi.

Steve