Did the Tough Guard recently change?

Job

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Can't rate oil filters for the over 2 sigma outlier vehicles on the road that aren't maintained properly. The "up to xxK" miles is for the 0 to 2 sigma (95%) of vehicles on the road.
Up to x miles applies to 100% of the vehicles 100% of the time. No extra talkin’ is on the boxes. 😃
 

ZeeOSix

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Up to x miles applies to 100% of the vehicles 100% of the time. No extra talkin’ is on the boxes. 😃
It might "apply" ... but it doesn't mean everyone should do it based on their vehicle use, condition and maintenance. Like said, Fram isn't going to rate the holding capacity (the "up to" mileage) based on the worse abused and non-maintained cars on the road.. 😄
 
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dnewton3

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Fram warranty is here, first few lines tell a story.
This isn't new; it's been their written statement for a LONG time.

Notice, and think ...
The warranty statement does not delineate between filters (EG, TG, XG). So as long as you use the Fram filter (even an EG) for the OEM FCI, then you're covered. The marketing garbage on the boxes means nothing in court; the written warranty statement (in compliance of the requirement in the M/M Warranty Act) usurps words on boxes.

AND ... what if the OEM filter interval is 2x the OCI? Some brands (Honda, Mitsubish and others) have occasionally recommend filter changes every other oil change in some applications. My daughter's old 2000 4-cyl Galant had a "normal" OCI of 7.5k miles and a "normal" FCI of 2x the OCI, meaning the FCI is 15k miles!


This has all been discussed before. It's pretty much moot; when was the last time we had a documented engine failure example related directly to a filter failure?
 

ZeeOSix

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AND ... what if the OEM filter interval is 2x the OCI? Some brands (Honda, Mitsubish and others) have occasionally recommend filter changes every other oil change in some applications. My daughter's old 2000 4-cyl Galant had a "normal" OCI of 7.5k miles and a "normal" FCI of 2x the OCI, meaning the FCI is 15k miles!
Exactly. If someone driving a Honda with the "A/B" schedule and the OLM put OCIs out near 10K each then the Ultra rated at 20K would still be covered per Fram's warranty.
 

dnewton3

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Exactly. If someone driving a Honda with the "A/B" schedule and the OLM put OCIs out near 10K each then the Ultra rated at 20K would still be covered per Fram's warranty.
So would the EG, because their written warranty does not delineate between the filter choices (EG, TG, XG), nor does it reference the marketing hype on the box. That's the elephant lurking in the shadows ... All the filter makers whom I've researched into their written warranties, don't separate their warranty by filter "grade"; they just lump them under the one same written statement and call them "products" (or something similar).

FRAM® filter products manufactured or sold by FRAM Group Operations LLC are warranted to their original purchaser to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval and FRAM® hard parts (filters and hard parts are collectively referred to as, “Products”) are warranted to their original purchaser to be free from defects in material and workmanship for one (1) year from the later of the date of purchase or the date of installation.

In the incredibly-remote chance that a Fram filter actually did cause a failure, probably one of the many things the letigious corporate folks would look at is "What was your oil and filter change regime? When did you last change oil and filter? Did you follow the OEM scheule?"

The XG enjoys no extra warranty over an TG or an EG. They all have the same written warranty coverage limitation; that of the OEM schedule. Period.
 

Job

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I don't read anything except a warranty against defects in material and workmanship in the stated Fram warranty posted above. A clogged filter is not defective material or workmanship. Cars don't stay new, they get old and worn out. After the cars recommended oil change interval is exceeded, they don't warrant defects at all. I don't see anything else there.
Fram did have an engine failure and bought a new used engine for someone with the traveling adbv case.
 

ZeeOSix

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Yea-how many million of oil filters are fine? The thing is did Fram step up and pay for the motor?
Go to post #154 (OP is camloopy) which is the owner of the Mazda. Yes, Fram covered it.

 
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ZeeOSix

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So would the EG, because their written warranty does not delineate between the filter choices (EG, TG, XG), nor does it reference the marketing hype on the box. That's the elephant lurking in the shadows ... All the filter makers whom I've researched into their written warranties, don't separate their warranty by filter "grade"; they just lump them under the one same written statement and call them "products" (or something similar).

FRAM® filter products manufactured or sold by FRAM Group Operations LLC are warranted to their original purchaser to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval and FRAM® hard parts (filters and hard parts are collectively referred to as, “Products”) are warranted to their original purchaser to be free from defects in material and workmanship for one (1) year from the later of the date of purchase or the date of installation.

In the incredibly-remote chance that a Fram filter actually did cause a failure, probably one of the many things the letigious corporate folks would look at is "What was your oil and filter change regime? When did you last change oil and filter? Did you follow the OEM scheule?"

The XG enjoys no extra warranty over an TG or an EG. They all have the same written warranty coverage limitation; that of the OEM schedule. Period.
There are basically two parts to the written Fram warranty: 1) The warranty of the actual product (filter) and 2) The coverage of any engine damage that is found to be caused by a defective product (filter).

The way 1) is written, they say the filter would only be covered "for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval" for any "defects in material and workmanship". Then they throw in the statement: "warranted to their original purchaser to be free from defects in material and workmanship for one (1) year from the later of the date of purchase or the date of installation". Since that warranty is only on the product, if an oil filter started leaking for some reason like a bad base seam seal & crimp, then it would be covered under warranty. If anything goes wrong inside (like torn media), it wound never be covered because no company is going to warranty the product if it's cut open or torn apart. Think there have been a few members here who had the can leak half way through an OCI and Fram had them send it back (paid by Fram) and sent them a couple new replacement filters.

Most manufacturer OCIs for newer cars are stated to change and filter in X miles or 1 year (which ever one comes first), so apparently the coverage in Fram's statement would cover a 1 year OCI. Statement says: "one (1) year from the later of the date of purchase or the date of installation" ... do they mean the oldest date or the newest date. It depends on how you interpret the statement. I'm going to assume it's the oldest date, so it you bought a filter and installed it 2 years later (from a filter hording stash, lol) it wouldn't be covered at all for material and workmanship. Maybe they do intend "later date" to be when the filter is installed, but why would they even bring up "later of the date" since when is a filter installed before it's purchased?

The second statement about covering any engine damage is pretty clear IMO.
 
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40K must be a new record. Did you ever post photos of one after being used for 40K miles (I don't recall seeing any).
I put 50,000 (90%+ highway miles) miles on the "Older version" Tough Guard.

I've just been too busy to cut & show it.

Still have it though.
 
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This has all been discussed before.
It's pretty much moot;
when was the last time we had a documented engine failure example related directly to a filter failure?
Never - - that I can recall.
I have removed filters that failed in service that were on engines that *seemed to be* running just fine...
(no way to determine wear without disassembling it) .

Maybe the Service Bulletin in the 90's that said to not used Fram filters on Cummins 5.9 diesels?
Even then - I don't recall any engine failures from it.
 

dnewton3

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There are basically two parts to the written Fram warranty: 1) The warranty of the actual product (filter) and 2) The coverage of any engine damage that is found to be caused by a defective product (filter).

The way 1) is written, they say the filter would only be covered "for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval" for any "defects in material and workmanship". Then they throw in the statement: "warranted to their original purchaser to be free from defects in material and workmanship for one (1) year from the later of the date of purchase or the date of installation". Since that warranty is only on the product, if an oil filter started leaking for some reason like a bad base seam seal & crimp, then it would be covered under warranty. If anything goes wrong inside (like torn media), it wound never be covered because no company is going to warranty the product if it's cut open or torn apart. Think there have been a few members here who had the can leak half way through an OCI and Fram had them send it back (paid by Fram) and sent them a couple new replacement filters.

Most manufacturer OCIs for newer cars are stated to change and filter in X miles or 1 year (which ever one comes first), so apparently the coverage in Fram's statement would cover a 1 year OCI. Statement says: "one (1) year from the later of the date of purchase or the date of installation" ... do they mean the oldest date or the newest date. It depends on how you interpret the statement. I'm going to assume it's the oldest date, so it you bought a filter and installed it 2 years later (from a filter hording stash, lol) it wouldn't be covered at all for material and workmanship. Maybe they do intend "later date" to be when the filter is installed, but why would they even bring up "later of the date" since when is a filter installed before it's purchased?

The second statement about covering any engine damage is pretty clear IMO.
I agree with your assessment.

As for the "later of ..." part of their statement, I also agree it's a tad muddied, but here's how I believe they intend for it to play out.

Examples:
- Buy the filter on Jan 1, install it on the same day. They would cover it to Jan 1 the next year.
- Buy the filter on Jan 1, install it on Jun 1 that same year. It's covered until Jun 1 the following year (18 months from date of purchase, but only 12 months from date of installation, what can be interpreted as the "later" of the two dates).
- pretty much improbable to imagine how you'd get the filter in possession BEFORE purchase, so the reverse condition of their statement seems silly to say the least.
 
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