Did Rotella Ever Have JASO MA Certification?

[Analyzer]

Originally Posted by BBDartCA
The reason I raised the concern is regarding warranty approval for a suspect lube failure. If the Motorcycle OEM specified that a JASO MA oil was needed, and a non-registered JASO oil was all that was recorded as being used, the risk for claim denial may be higher. Not a relevant concern for many as I am sure a lot of us are riding bikes well out of warranty. And of course not saying Rotella isnt a quality MC lube.

Below is the MA2 approval markings I am accustom to seeing. Includes the registration number.

I get what you're saying, and it is a valid concern. Having a lubricant based failure on a modern motorcycle from a reputable manufacturer is nearly non existent. As long as you are using a quality oil from a reputable company, that meets or exceeds the specifications for you're motorcycle, and changing the oil at appropriate intervals, you have nothing to worry about.

Even if you were to have a warranty claim linked to a potentially failed lubricant and you were denied coverage, you could contest their findings. This would then fall on the manufacturer to prove that the failure was caused by the lubricant, and not any other possibilities.

In essence, use a quality oil from a reputable manufacturer, that meets the manufactures specs, changed at the recommended intervals, and your odds of a lubricant based failure will be negligible.

 

[Bonz]

Help me recall, however I believe it's been shared somewhere on the forum at one point or another that Shell has said via email response they will back an oil related failure when their product is used in a situation they certify it for use. Probably laughing all the way at every email they get from someone, lol.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by BBDartCA
Did any of the Rotella products ever have an actual JASO MA license /approval? ...
http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf


No

 

[BBDartCA]

Originally Posted by Analyzer

I get what you're saying, and it is a valid concern. Having a lubricant based failure on a modern motorcycle from a reputable manufacturer is nearly non existent.


I agree and dissaree. Agree that lube failures due to oil quality are normally unlikely in modern motorcycles. But disagree on warranty rejection. OEMs, when they have a big expensive problem, will sometimes, maybe more often than not, look for loopholes to deny claims. In a very specific case, Moto Guzzi had a disaster with the 8v 1200 cams going flat. While they were trying to figure out what was going on and weasel their way out of responsibility, excuses like "unapprpved Oil" were used to deny claims (the fix was horribly expensive and they administered it very poorly). I see countless other examples but they are not shareable in the public domain.

 

[Bonz]

Ironic, when something is wrong mechanically with a design or a flaw that causes an oil-related problem, you just need to have an oil that meets the manufacturers requirements in the engine. Has nothing to do with the oil being a "good" oil or a "bad" oil based on analysis or other measure of oil quality.

Thanks for the example of Moto Guzzi.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by BBDartCA
The reason I raised the concern is regarding warranty approval for a suspect lube failure. If the Motorcycle OEM specified that a JASO MA oil was needed, and a non-registered JASO oil was all that was recorded as being used, the risk for claim denial may be higher. Not a relevant concern for many as I am sure a lot of us are riding bikes well out of warranty. And of course not saying Rotella isnt a quality MC lube.

Below is the MA2 approval markings I am accustom to seeing. Includes the registration number.

Correct and nothing wrong with your thinking.
Valvoline 4 stroke 20/50 has the same.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted by BBDartCA
While they were trying to figure out what was going on and weasel their way out of responsibility, excuses like "unapprpved Oil" were used to deny claims (the fix was horribly expensive and they administered it very poorly).


Unapproved oil is an excuse...

Your Honor, I argue the manufacture's claim is indefensible because ruffly 6.8 % of an new oil change is contaminated with undrained oil... mix in the contamination of multi oil changes and you must deceived in favor of my client...

 

[GrumpyCat]

For your consideration please note since the introduction of red bottle Rotella Gas Truck the blue bottle has dropped SAE/API "S" for gasoline engines. Not to say current Rotella T6 won't meet SAE/API SG (or later), just saying it is suspiciously missing from the current bottle.

My concern is combustion blow-by. Not worried about the ability to lubricate pistons or bearings. Not (yet) worried about deposits forming on the backside of intake valves due to direct injection.

JASO T903 and T904 spell out the requirements for the JASO MA/MA2 rating. Most is accounting, collecting other certifications. Gasoline compatibility is required. The only new thing not found in other certifications is a wet plate clutch friction test. Requires a custom built clutch containing no parts from a production motorcycle, which makes it difficult.

As others have said, Shell never submitted Rotella for formal approval. Shell self-certified. I trust(ed) Shell but lacking "S" certification I no longer trust the claim of JASO MA/MA2.

 

[Bonz]

You provided probably the best evidence as to what’s going on, they’re trying to sell more in the red bottle. But with that said, why would they suddenly drop a designation and leave multitudes of faithful users with an oil that’s not suitable for their vehicle? Do we think they changed the formula so it is not suitable for a gas engine? Highly doubt it.

What is the concern about combustion blow by? That’s a function of the motorcycle not the oil. Motorcycles built 30-40 years ago had less advanced oils and more blow-by than anything we see in a newer bike today, and did just fine using oil most people would consider a threat to their engine today, LOL. My 1980 Yamaha XS1100 SG was a tremendous oil contaminator due to blow by from that big air cooled lump of an engine that purred like a kitten yet has tolerances like a knock-kneed horse that’s been put out to pasture. Didn’t matter what oil went in that bike, 2500 miles and the oil was done. Shift quality fell off and the oil was just plain dirty. Yamaha knew what they were talking about when they went with a 2500 mile recommended OCI, but that’s beside the point.

I don’t see where changing the designation on the bottle in one case but keeping the designation in another case would somehow lead to the conclusion the remaining designation is not trustworthy. In and of itself JASO MA/MA2 would include all motorcycles. As there aren’t anything but gasoline powered motorcycles, it’s a de facto understanding to my mind. I don’t know that the S designation when we pick the nits apart has anything to do with motorcycle suitability when it has a JASO MA/MA2 designation whether self certified or on some official list.

Motorcycles aren’t using direct injection, trying to see how that could be an issue?

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Did any of the Rotella products ever have an actual JASO MA license /approval?

Jaso not much help because all Shell has to do is ante up $365...

Quote RDMgr

"JALOS does not test oils. They register oils based on manufacturer
data and site. Most of the data is generated by additive package
manufacturers. The system is just for registration. They hate any term
that implies their approval such as “certified by”.

"Cost to register one grade of oil from one manufacturing site is
40,000 Japanese Yen or about USD 365.00."

"JASO sets the standard. JALOS has the responsibility for the review
and registration. Once this is done you have the right to use the mark
on your labels. The documents submitted for review include the
technical performance data and label design.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

The reason I raised the concern is regarding warranty approval for a suspect lube failure. If the Motorcycle OEM specified that a JASO MA oil was needed, and a non-registered JASO oil was all that was recorded as being used, the risk for claim denial may be higher.

Even if it was recorded how would you prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was the non-registered JASO oil???

 

[cdlamb]

My old bottle of Rotella T6 has the JASO MA on the specs, but new bottles I am looking at, do not.

I used to use it, but now am unsure if I can still use it in my ATV.