Did GC ever go API SN?

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Originally Posted By: Trav
These are the specs for Castrol 0w30 sold in Germany. Spezifikationen/Freigaben SAE 0W-30ACEA C2, C3API SN/CFVW 502 00/ 505 00BMW Longlife-04MB-Freigabe 229.31/ 229.51 http://castroledge.de/motorenole/
Yeah, but that is not GC. The oil that most closely resembles GC is SLX Professional Longtec: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2415124#Post2415124 As for GC, it will never be API SN/SM. It's got too much of the good stuff in it to meet the current API limits. smile
 
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Quote:
Yeah, but that is not GC.
True it may not be the obsolete product they send here but it sure is German Castrol In every way. Even the new 0w40 is SN The SLX Professional Longtec seems to be obsolete and no longer sold in Germany from what i can tell from their website. It has been replaced by Edge 0w30. http://www.oil-store.de/product_info.php...0W-30--1Li.html
Quote:
Lieber Kunde, aufgrund neuer Lieferungen kann es sein, dass Sie bereits das Nachfolgeprodukt Castrol EDGE Professional A5 0W-30 erhalten
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Even the new 0w40 is SN
0w-40 oils can easily meet SM/SN because the API add pack limits for Xw-40 grades are higher than for Xw-30 grades.
Quote:
The SLX Professional Longtec seems to be obsolete and no longer sold in Germany from what i can tell from their website. It has been replaced by Edge 0w30.
That may be true. Edge 0w-30 has lower additive levels and is a mid-SAPs oil so that it can meet specs such as LL04 and MB 229.51. By the same token it can also meet API SN. This is fine for use in gasoline engines in Europe, but not so for gasoline engines in the US if you're going to be running extended drains.
 
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
M1 0W-40 is an SN oil, and IMO is a better choice to GC in virtually every application.
I don't know about M1 0w-40, but what would be the point of GC being certified for SM or SN anyway? Just about any newish vehicle that calls for SM or SN also calls for GF-4 or GF-5, which GC is simply not going to meet. I assume BP knows that it's a niche oil for mostly European applications and that getting the latest certification would be a waste of money.
 

45ACP

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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
M1 0W-40 is an SN oil, and IMO is a better choice to GC in virtually every application.
I don't know about M1 0w-40, but what would be the point of GC being certified for SM or SN anyway? Just about any newish vehicle that calls for SM or SN also calls for GF-4 or GF-5, which GC is simply not going to meet. I assume BP knows that it's a niche oil for mostly European applications and that getting the latest certification would be a waste of money.
If there is an Edge 0W-30 then GC is obsolete. I have not seen an Edge 0W-30. Edge 0W-30 would be SN. Im talking about the USA market. Here is Castrol's FAQ on the SL 0W-30 and 5W-50 grades (good oils:) http://www.bp.com/assets/bp_internet/cas...ol_EDGE_FAQ.pdf 9. Why is Castrol SYNTEC 0W-30 formula not changing right away? The 0W-30 is a global European formula. The volume is much higher in other markets than it is in the US and those markets require the specifications of the current formula. Like 5W-40, the packaging on 0W-30 will remain SYNTEC until we receive OEM approvals on the new name. .. well wow, there IS a 5W-50 SN! OMG http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644 Also, from here.. http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9014090&contentId=7027092 WHICH IS THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE SLX LONGLIFE II OIL? A. This is the EDGE 5W-30 – the Longlife II oil was a 0W-30 viscosity to 503 00 / 506 00 / 506 01 specification – you’ll notice that as well as the new viscosity the specification on the EDGE 5W-30 is VW 504 00 / 507 00 – this is the latest VW specification for the VW Longlife oil. The EDGE 5W-30 is suitable for all Audi vehicles on both variable and fixed servicing and VW cars on variable servicing with the exception of - VW R5 and V10 TDi engines (Touareg) and VW Commercial vehicles without fitted DPF (diesel particulate filters) – these must use the 506 01 specification oil (SLX Longlife II) – contact your VW/Audi dealer for this product. VW cars fitted with PD diesel engines on fixed servicing (VW 505 01) must use the EDGE Turbo Diesel 5W-40 except models fitted with Diesel Particulate Filters which must use an oil meeting VW 507 00 – EDGE 5W-30
 
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I suspect its only a matter of time before we see the Edge 0w30 and 0w40 here in the U.S. There definitely seems to be a market for these weights. I maybe wrong but with Castrol and Mobil using more GpIII base stocks i cant see them making the old formula GC forever.
 
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Originally Posted By: 45ACP
If there is an Edge 0W-30 then GC is obsolete. I have not seen an Edge 0W-30. Edge 0W-30 would be SN. Im talking about the USA market.
It just wouldn't make any sense, in my view, for them to take an oil that caters to European specifications and has a viscosity outside the "normal" American viscosities and licence it to the latest API standards, especially since it cannot meet ILSAC standards. SN on its own isn't as useful as SN/GF-5 and the appropriate energy conserving viscosity. It's like having 20w-50 in SM or SN. What's the real point? Nothing in North America specs such a combination, and the SM or SN merely helps reassure those that use the grade that the oil companies haven't "forgotten" to update the blends once in a while. An SN or SN/GF-5 rating means about as much to a newish VW driver as does a VW 5xx.xx spec to me in my G37. It's not something I look for. If I wish to run a synthetic Castrol or M1 product in my G37 under warranty, it simply wouldn't be GC or M1 0w-40 since they aren't certified to the specifications I need. They have alternate products that meet them exactly.
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Trav
Even the new 0w40 is SN
0w-40 oils can easily meet SM/SN because the API add pack limits for Xw-40 grades are higher than for Xw-30 grades.
Which I gather means the M1 SM/SN 0W-40 specs(add packs)are similar to the SL GC... So in plain terms the M1 is probably closer to a SL oil than SN?
 
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So, not to hijack this thread, but I have a 2011 VW GTi which I just put GC in because from what I got on BITOG was that is would be better than straight Castrol 5W-40 in general and with the 0W it would be particularly better for winter (I'm in Canada). Now I'd reading that Mobil 1 0W-40 may be better for winter than GC and might even have a better add pack for my engine. I know a lot of this is just opinion, but would you guys, in general, consider M1 better than GC for my engine? thanks for any help
 
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I think based on the fact that M1 0w-40 has higher viscosity index, it would offer better flow in very cold startup temps. So from that standpoint, yes, M1 would be better. The only downside to M1 0w-40 really that I have read here on BITOG is that it makes certain engines sound more noisy. However, people's butt dynos can't always be trusted. On top of that, the M1 0w-40 formulation has been revamped several times by now, so what sounded noisy 5 years ago may not necessarily sound noisy today. Both GC and M1 0w-40 are perfectly fine for your GTI. We tend to split hairs here on BITOG. smile
 
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Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Trav
Even the new 0w40 is SN
0w-40 oils can easily meet SM/SN because the API add pack limits for Xw-40 grades are higher than for Xw-30 grades.
Which I gather means the M1 SM/SN 0W-40 specs(add packs)are similar to the SL GC... So in plain terms the M1 is probably closer to a SL oil than SN?
I would put it this way: Mobil probably didn't have to do much to make their 0w-40 API SN compliant.
 

45ACP

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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
If there is an Edge 0W-30 then GC is obsolete. I have not seen an Edge 0W-30. Edge 0W-30 would be SN. Im talking about the USA market.
It just wouldn't make any sense, in my view, for them to take an oil that caters to European specifications and has a viscosity outside the "normal" American viscosities and licence it to the latest API standards, especially since it cannot meet ILSAC standards. SN on its own isn't as useful as SN/GF-5 and the appropriate energy conserving viscosity. It's like having 20w-50 in SM or SN. What's the real point? Nothing in North America specs such a combination, and the SM or SN merely helps reassure those that use the grade that the oil companies haven't "forgotten" to update the blends once in a while. An SN or SN/GF-5 rating means about as much to a newish VW driver as does a VW 5xx.xx spec to me in my G37. It's not something I look for. If I wish to run a synthetic Castrol or M1 product in my G37 under warranty, it simply wouldn't be GC or M1 0w-40 since they aren't certified to the specifications I need. They have alternate products that meet them exactly.
PYB has 20W-50 SN I think the question is the need for that grade when 1W-50 M1, 5W-50 SN Edge with Syntec, and 0W-50 Eneos exist. And those are all synthetic whereas PYB is the old school conventional of the bunch, for true classic car guys. Right?
 
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Originally Posted By: fredf
So, not to hijack this thread, but I have a 2011 VW GTi which I just put GC in because from what I got on BITOG was that is would be better than straight Castrol 5W-40 in general and with the 0W it would be particularly better for winter (I'm in Canada). Now I'd reading that Mobil 1 0W-40 may be better for winter than GC and might even have a better add pack for my engine. I know a lot of this is just opinion, but would you guys, in general, consider M1 better than GC for my engine?
As I have mentioned M1 0W-40 is lighter on start-up at virtually all temp's as high as 25C. The reason is M1's much higher 185 VI vs only 167 for GC. This applies to start-up temp's down to about -20C. Below that you really have to look at the extreme cold viscosity stat's like MRV @ -40C and CCS @ -35C. Mobil provides those figures but Castrol doesn't. You're in Canada but you haven't mentioned where and therefore what is the coldest temp's that you will be starting your car? If you're in the GTA as I am, then M1 0W-40 is the better choice, but if you're further north and you may be starting your car unaided at -40 degrees then GC could have an advantage but without the spec's we don't. BTW, if using a non specified oil doesn't bother you, in Canada we have a number of heavy (HTHSV 3.5cP+) 0W-30 oils from which to choose. Petro-Canada, Imperial oil and Shell Canada all have suitable offerings that are both lighter on start-up and cheaper than M1 0W-40. My favourite is the PAO based Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0W-30 (nee Esso XD-3).
 
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Originally Posted By: 45ACP
PYB has 20W-50 SN I think the question is the need for that grade when 1W-50 M1, 5W-50 SN Edge with Syntec, and 0W-50 Eneos exist. And those are all synthetic whereas PYB is the old school conventional of the bunch, for true classic car guys. Right?
Yep, that was my point. SN 20w-50 exists for sure. Nothing out there that I can think of requires a 20w-50 in SN. But, I guess it keeps the classic car guys happy that the formulation isn't the same as it was in 1970.
 
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Originally Posted By: fredf
I'm in Toronto. And, yes, as my car is only 1 yr old, warranty concerns are real and so it must be VW 502.
Well in addition to M1 0W-40 there are a few Total retailers in the GTA and I believe they make a high VI 0W-30 that meets VW 502. Don't know if you ever get to Hamilton, if so there is Liqui-Moly LongLine High Tech 5W-30 that has a 178 VI that meets VW 502. Due to it's highish VI it will ge lighter than M1 0W-40 on start-up at all temp's you're going to see in T.O. It's only $29.99/5L jug at A & A Discount Auto in Hamilton. They carry a number of different German oils including Fuchs.
 
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