Did Fram increase the bypass valve pressure on the XG10575?

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Ag76
Fram says you can't tell the new version from the old one by looking at the box. You can tell them apart by looking down the center tube at the by pass-valve. The old by-pass valve with the lower psi setting is black, and the new one with the higher setting is white. This is according to Fram Technical Services.


I didn't see any language in either of those Service Bulletins that discussed the color of the bypass valve. Did you get this information by calling Fram?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here is a Fram XG10575 from 2018. Although it has the "new-style" print and the mention of 20,000 miles, it still has the old style black bypass valve at the bottom of the filter.

 

[Ag76]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Ag76
Fram says you can't tell the new version from the old one by looking at the box. You can tell them apart by looking down the center tube at the by pass-valve. The old by-pass valve with the lower psi setting is black, and the new one with the higher setting is white. This is according to Fram Technical Services.


I didn't see any language in either of those Service Bulletins that discussed the color of the bypass valve. Did you get this information by calling Fram?

Yes, I called Fram Technical Services, and was given this information.

 

[Job]

Well, the Frams used to have white bypass valves not that long ago, then went to black. I though they never go back.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Hydraulic pressure is felt all the way back to the oil pump. The oil filter's bypass relief threshold relieves that pressure. Fluid Mechanics 101

Sounds correct. A relief valve, dumping to atmosphere, can be put on any section of plumbing and it works only on that sections pressure. Before the oil filter is a section of plumbing working at a different pressure than after the oil filter. Seems pretty clear a bypass valve alters the pressure, determined by it's size.


Go back and read all the posts in this thread about this subject so far. He believes the filter's bypass valve somehow controls how the pump's pressure relief valve works. It simply doesn't work that way. I know you made a comment in another thread saying you thought the filter's bypass valve somehow "messed with" the pump's relief valve. Care to explain that thought? Misconceptions are pretty hard to break sometimes, but anyone reading this forum for many years should have seen how this stuff works by now.

The filter's bypass valve operates completely independent, and has absolutely no connection on how the pump's relief valve works. The filter's bypass valve simply bypasses flow around the filter media when the delta-p across the media is above the bypass valve setting, regardless of what the oil pump is doing ... simple as that.

+1

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Hydraulic pressure is felt all the way back to the oil pump. The oil filter's bypass relief threshold relieves that pressure. Fluid Mechanics 101

Sounds correct. A relief valve, dumping to atmosphere, can be put on any section of plumbing and it works only on that sections pressure. Before the oil filter is a section of plumbing working at a different pressure than after the oil filter. Seems pretty clear a bypass valve alters the pressure, determined by it's size.


Go back and read all the posts in this thread about this subject so far. He believes the filter's bypass valve somehow controls how the pump's pressure relief valve works. It simply doesn't work that way. I know you made a comment in another thread saying you thought the filter's bypass valve somehow "messed with" the pump's relief valve. Care to explain that thought? Misconceptions are pretty hard to break sometimes, but anyone reading this forum for many years should have seen how this stuff works by now.

The filter's bypass valve operates completely independent, and has absolutely no connection on how the pump's relief valve works. The filter's bypass valve simply bypasses flow around the filter media when the delta-p across the media is above the bypass valve setting, regardless of what the oil pump is doing ... simple as that.

I already know all that. You yourself said in another thread that if the filter is clogged or whatever the oil pump could go into relief. Maybe like at -20.That's what I was saying. And if there is a bypass open there, or not, it indeed does affect the oil pump relief valve's threshold.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Hydraulic pressure is felt all the way back to the oil pump. The oil filter's bypass relief threshold relieves that pressure. Fluid Mechanics 101

Sounds correct. A relief valve, dumping to atmosphere, can be put on any section of plumbing and it works only on that sections pressure. Before the oil filter is a section of plumbing working at a different pressure than after the oil filter. Seems pretty clear a bypass valve alters the pressure, determined by it's size.

Go back and read all the posts in this thread about this subject so far. He believes the filter's bypass valve somehow controls how the pump's pressure relief valve works. It simply doesn't work that way. I know you made a comment in another thread saying you thought the filter's bypass valve somehow "messed with" the pump's relief valve. Care to explain that thought? Misconceptions are pretty hard to break sometimes, but anyone reading this forum for many years should have seen how this stuff works by now.

The filter's bypass valve operates completely independent, and has absolutely no connection on how the pump's relief valve works. The filter's bypass valve simply bypasses flow around the filter media when the delta-p across the media is above the bypass valve setting, regardless of what the oil pump is doing ... simple as that.

I already know all that. You yourself said in another thread that if the filter is clogged or whatever the oil pump could go into relief. Maybe like at -20.That's what I was saying. And if there is a bypass open there, or not, it indeed does affect the oil pump relief valve's threshold.


Please explain the parts in red. As said before, there is absolutely no effect from the filter's bypass valve on the function of the pump's relief valve. The oil pump relief only works off the pressure sensed at the outlet of the pump ... regardless of what's going on down stream with the filter bypass valve. A filter bypass valve could be set to 8 PSI or 28 PSI and the oil pump pressure relief valve will operate exactly the same - it will not be triggered to open any differently. Of course the two filters will bypass under different conditions, but the pump is not affected one bit by the filter bypass valve setting.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Hydraulic pressure is felt all the way back to the oil pump. The oil filter's bypass relief threshold relieves that pressure. Fluid Mechanics 101

Sounds correct. A relief valve, dumping to atmosphere, can be put on any section of plumbing and it works only on that sections pressure. Before the oil filter is a section of plumbing working at a different pressure than after the oil filter. Seems pretty clear a bypass valve alters the pressure, determined by it's size.


Go back and read all the posts in this thread about this subject so far. He believes the filter's bypass valve somehow controls how the pump's pressure relief valve works. It simply doesn't work that way. I know you made a comment in another thread saying you thought the filter's bypass valve somehow "messed with" the pump's relief valve. Care to explain that thought? Misconceptions are pretty hard to break sometimes, but anyone reading this forum for many years should have seen how this stuff works by now.

The filter's bypass valve operates completely independent, and has absolutely no connection on how the pump's relief valve works. The filter's bypass valve simply bypasses flow around the filter media when the delta-p across the media is above the bypass valve setting, regardless of what the oil pump is doing ... simple as that.

I already know all that. You yourself said in another thread that if the filter is clogged or whatever the oil pump could go into relief. Maybe like at -20.That's what I was saying. And if there is a bypass open there, or not, it indeed does affect the oil pump relief valve's threshold.

The oil pumps relieve valve threshold is set by the oil pump designers. The oil pump will begin to return oil to the sump when this threshold is exceeded. This setting has nothing to do with the bypass valve setting in the oil filter.

 

[Motorking]

Originally Posted by gonefishing
I was looking at the specs on the XG10575 on Fram's website: http://www.fram.com/parts-search/XG10575/

I noticed the bypass valve setting pressure lists 16-28. I could have sworn that this filter had a 9-15 PSI setting the last time I looked. I have ran this filter before on my Sierra but not for a couple years now. Lately I have been using Mobil's M1-212A (mainly because of rebates). I know GM released a bulletin on engines that require a higher bypass pressure setting. Do you think Fram would increase this filter's bypass valve pressure because of this? This filter appears to fit a lot of Ford engines also (5.0 V8, 3.5 V6). I wonder what they require for bypass pressure?


Let me clear this up. GM initially went to a higher bypass on certain vehicles for reasons known only to them. Hence the 12060 release. Later they decided that a higher bypass would be good for the entire fleet of vehicles. This required the 10575 to also move to a higher bypass. BUT- They delay was the fact that the 10575 is quickly becoming the PH8A of the oil filter world. It fits a plethora of Ford and FCA vehicles in addition to GM. So, to move this filter to a higher bypass without issuing yet another part number, we had to get FCA, Ford and GM all on board with the changes. How do you tell the difference? The 9-15 psi bypass valve is black in color, you can see it if you look down the big hole in the filter. The new 22 psi bypass is white in color.

 

[Job]

[/quote]
The oil pumps relieve valve threshold is set by the oil pump designers. The oil pump will begin to return oil to the sump when this threshold is exceeded. This setting has nothing to do with the bypass valve setting in the oil filter.
[/quote]
I already said and know the oil pump relief has a setting. I know exactly what you are saying and it is correct for nearly all, but not in all cases.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by Motorking
Originally Posted by gonefishing
I was looking at the specs on the XG10575 on Fram's website: http://www.fram.com/parts-search/XG10575/

I noticed the bypass valve setting pressure lists 16-28. I could have sworn that this filter had a 9-15 PSI setting the last time I looked. I have ran this filter before on my Sierra but not for a couple years now. Lately I have been using Mobil's M1-212A (mainly because of rebates). I know GM released a bulletin on engines that require a higher bypass pressure setting. Do you think Fram would increase this filter's bypass valve pressure because of this? This filter appears to fit a lot of Ford engines also (5.0 V8, 3.5 V6). I wonder what they require for bypass pressure?


Let me clear this up. GM initially went to a higher bypass on certain vehicles for reasons known only to them. Hence the 12060 release. Later they decided that a higher bypass would be good for the entire fleet of vehicles. This required the 10575 to also move to a higher bypass. BUT- They delay was the fact that the 10575 is quickly becoming the PH8A of the oil filter world. It fits a plethora of Ford and FCA vehicles in addition to GM. So, to move this filter to a higher bypass without issuing yet another part number, we had to get FCA, Ford and GM all on board with the changes. How do you tell the difference? The 9-15 psi bypass valve is black in color, you can see it if you look down the big hole in the filter. The new 22 psi bypass is white in color.

I have a GM car with the feedback variable oil pump. GM did explain very well in a bulletin what the reason for the high bypass setting was for. The oil pump speed is regulated electrically by a pressure sensor. It's a little hard to understand but I got it a couple of times. Maybe if someone good at searching reposts the bulletin it can be seen. Many GM are going to the feedback oil pump and other makes as well to reduce drag on the engine. It's important to listen to them, the engine makers, on the requirements, IMO.

 

[Sierrasik]

Thanks for the info Motorking!

 

[gonefishing]

Originally Posted by Motorking
Originally Posted by gonefishing
I was looking at the specs on the XG10575 on Fram's website: http://www.fram.com/parts-search/XG10575/

I noticed the bypass valve setting pressure lists 16-28. I could have sworn that this filter had a 9-15 PSI setting the last time I looked. I have ran this filter before on my Sierra but not for a couple years now. Lately I have been using Mobil's M1-212A (mainly because of rebates). I know GM released a bulletin on engines that require a higher bypass pressure setting. Do you think Fram would increase this filter's bypass valve pressure because of this? This filter appears to fit a lot of Ford engines also (5.0 V8, 3.5 V6). I wonder what they require for bypass pressure?


Let me clear this up. GM initially went to a higher bypass on certain vehicles for reasons known only to them. Hence the 12060 release. Later they decided that a higher bypass would be good for the entire fleet of vehicles. This required the 10575 to also move to a higher bypass. BUT- They delay was the fact that the 10575 is quickly becoming the PH8A of the oil filter world. It fits a plethora of Ford and FCA vehicles in addition to GM. So, to move this filter to a higher bypass without issuing yet another part number, we had to get FCA, Ford and GM all on board with the changes. How do you tell the difference? The 9-15 psi bypass valve is black in color, you can see it if you look down the big hole in the filter. The new 22 psi bypass is white in color.


Thank you Jay for the confirmation. Plan to start using the XG10575 again when I use up my M1-212A filters.

What I find strange about the whole deal is why did GM release the bulletin regarding the oil filter bypass specs years after the Gen5 motors came out? In the case of the 5.3 in my 14 Sierra, the original recommend OEM filter was a PF63 (under 15 PSI bypass). GM then says the new PF63E is what should be used because of the new 22 PSI bypass spec. This announcement came almost 4 years after this motor was released in late 2013. As far as I know, there were no other engineering design changes to the oil system in these motors during that time frame.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot

If it is changed it is now correct for the 2014 and up Chev Gen 5 V8 engines which includes the 5.3 and the 6.2 liter engines. The 6.0 is not a Gen 5 engine so it still uses the 10060 Fram. ( but now I won't be able to put the longer 10575 on my 6.0 anymore.) Rats.


Sure you can.

The XG media has low resistance to flow, so don't have any substantial fear of bypass events. Keep on Truckin'

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted by Motorking
Originally Posted by gonefishing
I was looking at the specs on the XG10575 on Fram's website: http://www.fram.com/parts-search/XG10575/

I noticed the bypass valve setting pressure lists 16-28. I could have sworn that this filter had a 9-15 PSI setting the last time I looked. I have ran this filter before on my Sierra but not for a couple years now. Lately I have been using Mobil's M1-212A (mainly because of rebates). I know GM released a bulletin on engines that require a higher bypass pressure setting. Do you think Fram would increase this filter's bypass valve pressure because of this? This filter appears to fit a lot of Ford engines also (5.0 V8, 3.5 V6). I wonder what they require for bypass pressure?


Let me clear this up. GM initially went to a higher bypass on certain vehicles for reasons known only to them. Hence the 12060 release. Later they decided that a higher bypass would be good for the entire fleet of vehicles. This required the 10575 to also move to a higher bypass. BUT- They delay was the fact that the 10575 is quickly becoming the PH8A of the oil filter world. It fits a plethora of Ford and FCA vehicles in addition to GM. So, to move this filter to a higher bypass without issuing yet another part number, we had to get FCA, Ford and GM all on board with the changes. How do you tell the difference? The 9-15 psi bypass valve is black in color, you can see it if you look down the big hole in the filter. The new 22 psi bypass is white in color.


Thanks Jay! The 10575 was my go to filter and with the new bypass psi it's the hands down winner! The problem though is that all XG boxes at every retailer are sealed. I have NO way to determine if I'm getting the new or old filter without cutting the box open. This will get you kicked out of stores if caught. It's too bad Fram didn't put *some* indicator on the box.

 

[LEADED]

Well Mr webfors , do as I did just installed A Wix WL10290 perfect fit 22 psi on my turbo Equinox . Or get a Napa 100290 for $ 7.00 in stock no guesswork

 

[FFMartin91]

I just bought a XG10575 for my F150 EB to replace the Purolator Boss PBL22500 (which is rated at 22 PSI) and it's a black one

not sure if that's good or bad, but either way, the Motorcraft FL500S is rated at 8 PSI for the bypass so it's still close to the recommended oil filter's spec. I'm just hoping that it'll do better than the Boss since I've had multiple dry starts with it.

 

[4WD]

This is the point I bought some bulk PF63E filters to let the shelves purge of older XG10575 stock