Dex3, Dex6, Mobil1 etc ATF argument brewing help

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GhostFlame

GhostFlame

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Over on Xoutpost I got into a heated argument regarding using Mobil1 in my 2002 E53 BMW X5 3.0 with the GM transmission.
The factory fill was Texaco ETL8072B which from what I can read is Dex3 over on the GM site.
Now 2 years ago I was looking for an alternative to Tex ETL8072B. The BMW tech said that any Dex3 or Dex6 would work well in my tranny. I asked him if M1 was a good product he said it is one of the best for that transmission.

One of the vernerable long time posters over on Xoutpost who is generally a decent guy is telling me that I will have problems if I use the M1. He says that the makers of GM Dexron 3 and 6 has a warnign on their site which instructs users of "conterfiet" dexron atf to be ware as those "universal" fluids are not approved by GM.

Well okay I went to M1 atf site and it lists that it is compatible with Dex3. Below is M1 ATF spec sheet it lists Dexron 3.
M1 ATF Spec Sheet

To make the waters muddier I found Wolf's Head Super Synthetic ATF and it is the elixer of transmission life it covers everything including Dexron up to 6 and Texaco ETL8072B which was the factory fill and the DEX3 equivilent.
Wolf's Head Syn ATF

*Note I would use the factory fill but, they stopped making it
** Note I know the BMW says it is lifetime. Actually the service manual says CI every 100K miles
***Note I have been running the M1 since 90K, and at 142,000 miles... NO problems, shifts like new

This guy is starting to Get under my collar because he insists he is RIGHT when a good many people have made good arguments for M1.

He claims universals do not meet the specs. Am I wrong to assume M1 is okay for my transmission? he has got me concerned I might be doing something wrong that will damage the trans.
 
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M1 is not a universal fluid. it is a multi spec fluid.

I'd use it over wolfhead anything.
 
I find it interesting that Mobil 1 ATF holds no actual builder approvals, according to virginoil and Whitewolf this must mean it's garbage.

Although it is likely the best ATF in Mobil's lineup for the specs Mobil says it "meets/exceeds", I wouldn't doubt that the formulation simply makes it cost prohibitive to obtain builder approvals on that fluid.
 
Dex III for that tranny. Dex VI will work, but I prefer a low shear synthetic Dex III.

It's the internet, there are more experts than the shooting range and the jewelry counter in spring.
 
Does GM even license Dexron III anymore? I know Ford no longer has a Mercon license.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Does GM even license Dexron III anymore? I know Ford no longer has a Mercon license.


No such license. But companies still blend to it. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
But companies still blend to it. Nothing wrong with that.


I agree 100%, but the "OEM license only" gang won't.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Pablo
But companies still blend to it. Nothing wrong with that.


I agree 100%, but the "OEM license only" gang won't.


Of course they won't. And if you mention "follow the (license) money" to them, they will just say something about not trusting an oil company and motivation by pure greed.
 
M1 ATF also is recomended for Fords(MercomV). I have been using M1 ATF(tranny and PS pump) since Mobil came out with it in the early 90s.To date I have never had a tranny or PS pump fail using their ATF.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 ATF also is recomended for Fords(MercomV). I have been using M1 ATF(tranny and PS pump) since Mobil came out with it in the early 90s.To date I have never had a tranny or PS pump fail using their ATF.


I ran M1 ATF in 4R70Ws and Ford PS systems for years too, no failures either despite not having an official Mercon V builder's approval from Ford.
 
Thanks for the responses!

regarding the license, my combattant on the other site claims "no cert = no good" my arguement to him is that it is one of the best brands out there and they wouldn't risk their reputation suggesting to use it for the dex3 spec.

Multi Spec meaning all specs listed are included in the ATFs specs. The wolf's head is Universal according to it's spec sheet, is that not as good?

Wlf's Head is made by Amelie, I thought that was a good manufacturer of oil products. I wouldn't mind trying it I can get it for $4.25/qt

Pablo you got that right on your comment about internet posters
laugh.gif


I'm feeling better about the M1 decision in my tranny.

Thanks again!
 
Originally Posted By: GhostFlame
Wlf's Head is made by Amelie, I thought that was a good manufacturer of oil products. I wouldn't mind trying it I can get it for $4.25/qt


Amalie makes some odd claims regarding their universal ATF, they claim their fluid meets the requirements of the Ford CFT-30 (chain type CVT) AND Mercon V/SP/LV/Type F which all have radically different fluid requirements. I personally do not trust their claims and I wouldn't run that particular product even if it was given to me for free.

Mobil 1, Amsoil, Red Line, etc. make multi-spec fluids but they offer specific ATFs targeted at similar specs, that approach I trust. You won't find Mobil 1 ATF claiming to meet CVT or Type F requirements, simply because they aren't compatible with something like Mercon V...at all. I do not trust anything that claims to be truly universal.

I would avoid the "universal" fluids and stick with a proven and trusted multi-spec fluid like Mobil 1 personally.
 
Although ETL 8072B was CLOSE to DEXRON-III it was not actually an approved DEXRON product even though it was factory fill for certain applications.

The Mobil product is probably quite good but it does not appear to claim formal approvals so it probably doesn't have any.

As someone else says Mobil do have a licenced DEXRON-VI.

I would not go near the Wolf's head,the only limitation for it's claims (except the CVT comment) appears to be the size of the label!

DEXRON-III does not exist as all the licences were cancelled some years ago so the fluid quality is no longer policed by GM.

Your best bet in my opinion is to go with a DEXRON-VI fluid but just make sure that it is a genuine one by looking for the licence number on the package it should be a J- followed by five digits.

Hope that is some help.
 
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I don't like universal (multi-spec) fluids, unless it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that the specs are all the same. I have yet to see that be proven.

That said, there is no such thing as Dex III anymore.

I dont know Id trust a no-name ATF to be trustworthy to truly meet what was DIII. That said, I dont have a reason to not trust a mainstream blender to put together the correct fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 ATF also is recomended for Fords(MercomV). I have been using M1 ATF(tranny and PS pump) since Mobil came out with it in the early 90s.To date I have never had a tranny or PS pump fail using their ATF.


I ran M1 ATF in 4R70Ws and Ford PS systems for years too, no failures either despite not having an official Mercon V builder's approval from Ford.

I even use it in my Fusion which specs FNR-5 ATF whitch M1 does not have that rating, however it used to have the Mazda MV rating which was the same as FNR-5. Anyway, I called Mobil tech and I was told there would be no problem in the Fusion. Results: The tranny shifs great and wear seems to be normal when I removed the pan.
 
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