Dex-cool picture of the day

[ZGRider]

 Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc

 Originally Posted By: onion

The evidence has been posted on this site over and over. There's a link on one of these recent dexcool threads (I think the OP was by Critic. I'm not interested enough to look it up) that includes testimony given in the Dexcool lawsuit- to the effect that GM was well aware of Dexcool's incompatibility with certain gaskets AND the fact that Ford and Chrysler decided not to use Dexcool for exactly that reason. As for the sludge issue... well- there's that class action lawsuit. Or better yet, just do a quick yahoo image search on "dex-sludge" and you'll get row after row of nasty sludge pictures. I've seen enough cases in person to convince me.

Right. And I suppose you know the history of all those cases? How many people didn't check their coolant level, or added in various other coolants? You've seen enough - huh? LOL That's funny. I've seen a LOT of vehicles and owned a couple that had no problems with Dexcool - even over 100K miles. The class action lawsuit means NOTHING! Somebody had enough money to hire a lawyer. Big deal! And if Dexcool was sooo bad, why were only the V6 engines included in the lawsuit? How many hundreds of thousands of V8 and 4,5 and straight 6 engines did GM make? Probably even into the millions? I've replaced gaskets on cars with the V6 engines after people changed from Dexcool to another coolant. They still had the same problems. I'm just not convinced Dexcool is so bad. You just keep spouting your opinions, and you have done NOTHING to even come close to refuting it! Actually, quite the opposite. Weren't you the one that said: ". . . but when we bought my wife's '01 Chevy Lumina with 159,000 miles (and the original Dexcool), that cooling system was SPOTLESS. Not a trace of crud or any deposit in the engine or radiator. So I'll agree that when Dexcool works properly, it works great." Soooo - when does Dexcool start eating the gaskets and causing the sludge. At 160,000 miles? :) End of discussion for me. Good luck!

You want some proof? Then actually read this info from this link and see some proof that Dexcool does attack gaskets and not just intake gaskets but head gaskets too. So, even though you may not have coolant passages in your IM, you have head gaskets and many of those have been replaced in GM vehicles along with the IM gaskets. READ and don't just assume from your limited experience. Onion, we're wasting our time, GM marketers have totally brain-washed some of these guys. http://www.zillamotorsports.com/DEX/

 

[ron350]

ZGRider and Onion i agree with you but why debate? I have never changed any ones mind about something in my life. It's just antifreeze and people are going to use what they want no mater what you show or tell them. JHZR2 that is a very good picture you posted and i hope you continue to have good luck with your S-10. Cheers.

 

[oldmaninsc]

 Originally Posted By: ZGRider

You want some proof? Then actually read this info from this link and see some proof that Dexcool does attack gaskets and not just intake gaskets but head gaskets too. So, even though you may not have coolant passages in your IM, you have head gaskets and many of those have been replaced in GM vehicles along with the IM gaskets. READ and don't just assume from your limited experience. Onion, we're wasting our time, GM marketers have totally brain-washed some of these guys. http://www.zillamotorsports.com/DEX/

Limited experience? 50+ years is limited? LOL That's funny. I love that link you posted. Especially the part where the guy states at the very beginning of the article: " I've long suspected DEX as being the primary culprit in early lower intake manifold (LIM) gasket failures, but to this date, nobody has proven it. I won't prove it in this report either . . . " I agree people are being brainwashed - they would rather blame the coolant then blame the manufacturer who made the gaskets and/or designed the engine. Personally I could care less amount any body's marketing. If I had a vehicle that used vegetable oil in the radiator and it worked well for several years I'd continue to use it. Because there are photos on the internet of some neglected engines with a bunch of sludge doesn't prove the coolant is bad, anymore than showing the inside of an engine block with sludge and saying "Pennzoil is bad and causes sludge".

 

[onion]

Ok. Find me a picture of a sludged G05 cooling system. Shouldn't be hard if everything else sludges just like Dexcool. Hundreds of thousands of Fords, Mopars, Mercedes, and John Deeres use G05. I've seen some cases of 'green slime' from old-school high silicate antifreeze. But I've NEVER seen the sheer volume of nasty, sticky brown sludge that you COMMONLY see in Dexcool systems. And oldman- I agree with you that poorly designed intake gaskets are a BIG part of the Dexcool sludge equation (though certainly not the sole cause). Dexcool contributes to the gasket failures, and the gasket failures contribute to the DexSludge. It's a synergy of failure. Thing is, you can't show me ANY other coolant that will fail so spectacularly under similar (less than perfect) conditions.

 

[onion]

All that said, I think that you CAN have good results with Dexcool. I've never denied this... seen it myself... bought one. If you maintain the vehicle properly... and if you're lucky (your gaskets hold up, you don't develop any surprise leaks or overheats)... then there's a fair chance that your Dexcool system will remain squeaky clean. When the stuff works, it can very well. But when it doesn't work- you have a real mess to deal with. I just don't know why you'd choose to operate on such a razor-thin margin- where the slightest deviation from perfect can cause you MAJOR problems... when and proven alternatives are available.

 

[oldmaninsc]

 Originally Posted By: onion

Ok. Find me a picture of a sludged G05 cooling system. Shouldn't be hard if everything else sludges just like Dexcool. Hundreds of thousands of Fords, Mopars, Mercedes, and John Deeres use G05. I've seen some cases of 'green slime' from old-school high silicate antifreeze. But I've NEVER seen the sheer volume of nasty, sticky brown sludge that you COMMONLY see in Dexcool systems. And oldman- I agree with you that poorly designed intake gaskets are a BIG part of the Dexcool sludge equation (though certainly not the sole cause). Dexcool contributes to the gasket failures, and the gasket failures contribute to the DexSludge. It's a synergy of failure. Thing is, you can't show me ANY other coolant that will fail so spectacularly under similar (less than perfect) conditions.

I'm going to end it with this. Dexcool seems to be the popular one to badmouth and love to hate - just like Pennzoil was some years ago. I have seen cars with the old green stuff in it develop REALLY bad sludge. ANY SYSTEM that is neglected will develop problems. People love to badmouth Dexcool so therefore all the pictures crop up all over. This is the FIRST vehicle I have ever let go so long without changing the coolant. Not really on purpose, but due to a lot of personal problems. I was surprised at how clean the engine, radiator and the coolant itself looked. As I said previously - if this coolant goes almost 5 years and looks like new, why would I change to something else? I've seen cars from various friends/family members that overheated or were run low and didn't end up with sludge. Yes, GM vehicles with Dexcool. I could tell you about all the places I've worked and/or managed in the automotive industry, but since you have your mind made up, why bother? And of course - neither you or anyone else ever answered my question. Why don't you ever hear about all of GM other engines having problems - you only hear about the V6 engines? I suspect the reason you haven't answered it is because you can't! Plain and simple. If GM "lost" the lawsuit, (which of course as pointed out earlier, they didn't - they settled it) why wouldn't they change from Dexcool to something else? I'd agree GM isn't the brightest bulb around, but I don't think they are quite that dim! Bottom line - I don't for a moment think I'm ever going to change your mind, and until I see more evidence BEFORE MY EYES (not hearsay on a web forum) I'm not going to change mine either. So let's just leave it at that!

 

[ZGRider]

GM is so "dim" that they went from being the largest auto maker in the world to living off govt. handouts and ultimately having to file for bankruptcy in a single year. They are going to be broken into parts just to survive (providing that they quit making stupid decisions like using Dexcool) You trust any of the decisions they make? I own an '06 Chevy Silverado that I truly like, so I am not just a GM basher. Like I said before, maybe it took the collapse of GM to make them see the error of their ways. If they fail, at least they take Dexcool with them.

 

[05Blazer]

I flushed the Dexcool out 3 months ago in my '05' Blazer with only 28k miles on it. Kept it in there nervously till factory warranty ran out. The resivoir was coated in a slimy coating which I couldn't fully remove, and after flushing the system with running water for over 20 min, including a direct heater core flush, I drained the radiator and everything inside it was slightly coated with maroon color granulated Dexcool. I bought this truck brand new which had a build date of 04/04 and never opened the system up until then. My mother also has a '05' Equinox with less than 15k miles on it and when I opened the hood to check her oil last summer, the resivoir was completely sludged with dark brown mud! Luckily still under factory warranty, the dealer had to keep the suv for 3 days to flush it 3 times, replace the thermostat, clean the resivoir, and replace the A/C compressor. Coincidence? I think not, I feel that some people have gotten lucky with their systems but I will never put that stuff in any of my cars. I now have Peak Global Lifetime in my truck and plan on flushing it again after a full years use.

 

[benjamming]

oldmaninsc, The idea that GM would change if there was such a big problem with Dexcool is obliterated when you consider the LIM gasket fiasco. The 3.1 V6 was produced for over a decade with the problem & no permanent fix.

 

[SteveSRT8]

This is a classic case of Internet Justice at its finest. We run a fleet of GMC Savana 3500 vans with heat exchangers directly plumbed into the cooling system. These vans have DOUBLE the volume of coolant. All Dex Cool. I'm talking hard service, how about 175000 miles and 5000 hours of stationary operation? Thats equivalent to almost 400k miles! No coolant issues EVER! How can this be? I guarantee these vans have some air in the coolant at almost any time. Now that everyone has "heard" about dex problems the whole internet is abuzz with experts.

 

[oldmaninsc]

 Originally Posted By: benjamming

oldmaninsc, The idea that GM would change if there was such a big problem with Dexcool is obliterated when you consider the LIM gasket fiasco. The 3.1 V6 was produced for over a decade with the problem & no permanent fix.

I don't agree with that but you are entitled to your opinion. I thought I'd post the photos of my "sludged" up system. This is after 4 years and 6 months of "Deathcool" in there and just over 50,000 miles.

 

[benjamming]

You don't agree that the LIM gasket fiasco happened for over a decade before a permanent fix was available?

 

[oldmaninsc]

 Originally Posted By: benjamming

You don't agree that the LIM gasket fiasco happened for over a decade before a permanent fix was available?

LOL Yes, I'd agree that there WAS a problem with LIM. No question there. I just don't agree with your logic.

 

[wannafbody]

GM was notorious for inoperable rear brakes on Grand Prixs and Luminas. GM quality has been in the shi---r for quite a while.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

The V6s weren't the only engine that had problems with the LIM gaskets. Classic SBCs that worked perfectly for years had trouble starting the year Dexcool was introduced ('95 or '96, I believe). I personally maintain my vehicles. I'm anal about it. My '97 C2500 with the 5.7 SBC developed LIM leaks at the 7 year point. Almost everybody I've spoken to with that year engine had the same problem. I never had the sludge issue (it never got low on fluid), but did see it on other vehicles that were poorly maintained. SBCs, to my knowledge, never had massive LIM problems until Dexcool was introduced. This isn't proof Dexcool is the problem, since they could have switched to bad gaskets the same year they switched to the coolant, but it is a smoking gun.

 

[Rob_Roy]

 Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ

This isn't proof Dexcool is the problem, since they could have switched to bad gaskets the same year they switched to the coolant, but it is a smoking gun.

The SBC's got vortec heads/intake in '96, many blame the failures on the revised intake bolt pattern and intake gaskets.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

That's about the year the problems developed, but, I believe, also the year they went to Dexcool. The gasket I pulled out was badly damaged by something. On another note, the LIM gaskets on a '01 Alero GM 3.4 that I just fixed were intact (replaced them anyway). Smaller leaks appeared to be from loose manifold bolts and a huge leak from where the thermostat bypass pipe connected to the LIM. The pipe was just pressed loosely into the manifold, using red threadlocker to keep it in place and seal it. I'm not sure how that would ever hold up.

 

[bullwinkle]

 Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

This is a classic case of Internet Justice at its finest. We run a fleet of GMC Savana 3500 vans with heat exchangers directly plumbed into the cooling system. These vans have DOUBLE the volume of coolant. All Dex Cool. I'm talking hard service, how about 175000 miles and 5000 hours of stationary operation? Thats equivalent to almost 400k miles! No coolant issues EVER! How can this be? I guarantee these vans have some air in the coolant at almost any time. Now that everyone has "heard" about dex problems the whole internet is abuzz with experts.

My company had a fleet of '99-'01 Savana 2500 5.7 powered vans-EVERY SINGLE ONE had DEX related leakage problems eventually-even the 2 that I had.

 

[rbarrios]

not sure how I missed this thread. But I recognize that opening in oldmans pics above. This is my 2003 Trailblazer. The thermostat became lazy- and generated P0128. I changed out the thermostat. there was 111,000 on the engine. Heres how dexcool killed my engine.... (I now have 157K). You can even see the round ball marks from the foam casting method.

 

[rslifkin]

Some of the early Dexcool issues were a matter of GM not doing their homework fully, and putting dexcool in with either a non-pressurized overflow bottle, or in a system with incompatible gaskets, which would slowly dissolve. If neither of those conditions exist, and the system is taken care of, it works fine 99% of the time.