Depreciable difference between Redline 5w30 and 10w30?

[Red Crow]

I haven't found any relevant discussion on this topic through the search function, so I decided to just ask. Those of you familiar with Redline high performance ester base synthetic, is there really any depreciable difference between those respective grades. I've seen uoa and voa of the 5w30 and was impressed with what I saw, but what I dont quite understand is if both are 30wt pao/ester synthetics, what substantiates the difference?

 

[Imp4]

I'm confused.

Are you asking what the difference is between a 5w-30 and 10w-30?

If you're asking something different than that, can you please rephrase thw question?

 

[OVERKILL]

I haven't found any relevant discussion on this topic through the search function, so I decided to just ask. Those of you familiar with Redline high performance ester base synthetic, is there really any depreciable difference between those respective grades. I've seen uoa and voa of the 5w30 and was impressed with what I saw, but what I dont quite understand is if both are 30wt pao/ester synthetics, what substantiates the difference?

I think you mean appreciable difference?

The difference is the winter rating. One performs to the levels necessary to pass CCS and MRV at -35 and -30C respectively (5W-xx), the other doesn't.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Thinner and lower HTHS on the 10w30.... check the Redline website and compare

 

[Jetronic]

I believe he's asking how they achieved that, either by changing the base oil viscosities, or the concentrations of different basestocks, or...

My opinion, they use thinner PAO stock and add more VII to make the 5W30

 

[Brons2]

I think you mean appreciable difference?

The difference is the winter rating. One performs to the levels necessary to pass CCS and MRV at -35 and -30C respectively (5W-xx), the other doesn't.

10w ratings at -25.

 

[OVERKILL]

10w ratings at -25.

Yes, 10w-xx is -30C and -25C for MRV and CCS respectively. I was pointing out the limits for 5W-xx, which the 10W-xx doesn't meet (and the sequence of which need to be reversed in that post, but too late to edit now).

 

[Red Crow]

Sorry guys, I should have worded my question better, but Jetronic interpreted it correctly. I was wondering what Redline does to the formula to achieve one xw30 vs another xw30. I was under the impression that pao/ester synthetics didn't use viscosity index improvers to yield the multi grade product. I understand there is a difference between 5w and 10, but I'm not certain what creates that differ in their product. I know conventional uses more VII and group III usually uses a little bit of pao in order to do so, correct?

 

[OVERKILL]

Sorry guys, I should have worded my question better, but Jetronic interpreted it correctly. I was wondering what Redline does to the formula to achieve one xw30 vs another xw30. I was under the impression that pao/ester synthetics didn't use viscosity index improvers to yield the multi grade product. I understand there is a difference between 5w and 10, but I'm not certain what creates that differ in their product. I know conventional uses more VII and group III usually uses a little bit of pao in order to do so, correct?

There's no "usually" here, so you might as well skip the generalizations and they are just going to confuse you.

Any oil with a broad spread is going to have Viscosity Index Improvers in it. A synthetic will typically have less.

While it is possible to blend a 10w-30 without VII, most on the market include some. AMSOIL made or perhaps still makes an SAE 30 that's also a 10w-30, but that's the only one in their portfolio that doesn't use VII, their other 10w-30's, despite also being synthetic, use VII's.

I believe at one point we were told that Redline 5w-30 was VII-free but I don't believe that is actually the case, it likely just has a very low VII load. Redline's white bottle products are predominantly PAO, if the MSDS is any indication, with a good slug of POE added, making it a PAO/Ester blend. Their black bottle oils are just rebottled Philips 66 products.

I can provide you with a few PAO-based blending examples from Mobil's blending guide, but you can also likely find them if you search my posts, as I've posted them a few times. You'll see that as the spread narrows between the Winter rating and the SAE grade for a given base oil blend, that the VII treat rate is reduced. But, oils typically aren't formulated in that manner. Blenders will sub in cheaper bases and more VII as the spread narrows, making the product less expensive to blend because they can get away with doing so.

 

[Red Crow]

There's no "usually" here, so you might as well skip the generalizations and they are just going to confuse you.

Any oil with a broad spread is going to have Viscosity Index Improvers in it. A synthetic will typically have less.

While it is possible to blend a 10w-30 without VII, most on the market include some. AMSOIL made or perhaps still makes an SAE 30 that's also a 10w-30, but that's the only one in their portfolio that doesn't use VII, their other 10w-30's, despite also being synthetic, use VII's.

I believe at one point we were told that Redline 5w-30 was VII-free but I don't believe that is actually the case, it likely just has a very low VII load. Redline's white bottle products are predominantly PAO, if the MSDS is any indication, with a good slug of POE added, making it a PAO/Ester blend. Their black bottle oils are just rebottled Philips 66 products.

I can provide you with a few PAO-based blending examples from Mobil's blending guide, but you can also likely find them if you search my posts, as I've posted them a few times. You'll see that as the spread narrows between the Winter rating and the SAE grade for a given base oil blend, that the VII treat rate is reduced. But, oils typically aren't formulated in that manner. Blenders will sub in cheaper bases and more VII as the spread narrows, making the product less expensive to blend because they can get away with doing so.

Thank you. I appreciate the detailed explanation, as that was what I was looking for. I wasn't sure about the use of viscosity index polymers in pao/ester blends.

 

[Jetronic]

PAO and esters have viscosity indexes around 125 naturally. There's going to be outliers in certain grades of PAO and there's millions of esters possible but not all will be suitable for use in engine oil.

If the finished product has a viscosity index markedly higher than that (say 150 and over) there will be VI polymers in the mix