Deposit removal due to switching to Synthetic Motor Oil

[68redlines73]

At this site, the following claims are made about synthetic base oils: "synthetic base fluids provide the following advantages: High-temperature stability Improved wear protection Reduced deposit formation Improved cold-temperature flow properties Extended service life Waste minimization through reduced consumption Energy conservation Low volatility Improved biodegradability Viscosity control over a wide range of temperatures" Isn't the cleansing of the engine (being mentioned on this board) after adding a synthetic motor oil really due primarily to the dispersant/detergent additive systems found in these oils rather than the base oil in use itself?

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

No, it's the esters. Higher percentage or stronger esters (PE) the more cleaning.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by 68redlines73: At this site, the following claims are made about synthetic base oils: "synthetic base fluids provide the following advantages: High-temperature stability Improved wear protection Reduced deposit formation Improved cold-temperature flow properties Extended service life Waste minimization through reduced consumption Energy conservation Low volatility Improved biodegradability Viscosity control over a wide range of temperatures" Isn't the cleansing of the engine (being mentioned on this board) after adding a synthetic motor oil really due primarily to the dispersant/detergent additive systems found in these oils rather than the base oil in use itself?

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Don't equate "reduced deposit formation" with deposit removal. Increased deposit removal is not what ExxonMobil is claiming here. For the most part, you are correct. The additive package is what provides the "cleaning" properties of a synthetic oil, be it Group IV or Group III based.

 

[satterfi]

I’ve seen Mobil 1 remove deposits left by dino oil. I replaced the oil (Valvoline dino) with M1 in a motorcycle. After 10 minutes of running I looked at the sight glass and black flakes were flowing in the oil.

 

[G-MAN]

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Originally posted by satterfi: I’ve seen Mobil 1 remove deposits left by dino oil.

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So have I. I've also seen a HD diesel rated conventional oil clean up an engine. And in both cases it was primarily the additives, not the base oil, that was responsible.

 

[MolaKule]

For a full synthetic (Group IV and V), it is the esters + the DD package that controls sludge and other carbonaceous deposits, since esters are highly polar; this is the mechanism for Auto-RX; it contains various esters. [ December 18, 2002, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule: For a full synthetic (Group IV and V), it is the esters + the DD package that controls sludge and other carbonaceous deposits, since esters are highly polar; this is why Auto-RX is so effective, it contains various esters.

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Granted, and that's why I used the words "for the most part" and "primarily" in my responses. We spend a lot of time trumpeting the benefits of a good base oil, which is fine, but I think we are headed down the wrong path if we believe the base oil is the be-all and end-all when it comes to having a great versus a good finished product. The quality and abilities of the additive package are just as important. If I remember correctly, the earliest formulations of Mobil 1 didn't have any esters at all, and this was one of the reasons the oil had seal swell issues. It also meant the additive package had to be a bit more rubust to compensate for the PAO's inherent low detergency/low solvency properties.

 

[satterfi]

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Originally posted by XHVI:

quote:

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Originally posted by satterfi: I’ve seen Mobil 1 remove deposits left by dino oil.

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So have I. I've also seen a HD diesel rated conventional oil clean up an engine. And in both cases it was primarily the additives, not the base oil, that was responsible.

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I agree Had I known what was going to happen I would have used a HD diesel dino to clean things up. It would have been cheaper than using M1 for only 200 miles and then changing the oil again.

 

[MolaKule]

Redlines, Thats for a full synth composed of PAO's and esters. Mineral oils (including Group III) are not very biodegrable.

 

[YOOPYJ]

I agree, Mobil 1 is cleaning my engine. I don't know the past history of my Jeep 4 cyl, but after changing to Mobil 1, I noticed black flakes on the dipstick. I changed to a Super Tech ST16 filter and the black flakes are gone. Also, There was oil on the air filter from some blow by, it is decreasing, and the oil level is not droping as much. YOOPYJ

 

[68redlines73]

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Originally posted by MolaKule: Redlines, Thats for a full synth composed of PAO's and esters. Mineral oils (including Group III) are not very biodegrable.

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Actually, Group II and III base oils are considered inherently biodegradable, but we won't get into that...

 

[Smitty]

If a full synthetic will clean an engine, will a blend like Drive Clean Blend give a "little" cleaning?

 

[Patman]

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Originally posted by Smitty: If a full synthetic will clean an engine, will a blend like Drive Clean Blend give a "little" cleaning?

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Very very little. The Drive Clean blend is only about a 10% synthetic base oil.

 

[jjbula]

Speaking of Drive Clean blend...would the group I oil in it help clean or is it only the detergent package that would clean? If Drive clean has esters in it they too could help clean. Does anyone know if Drive Clean has esters?

 

[Giles]

I'm not sure but I thought Drive Clean for high mileage cars had a less aggressive detergent package than normal. Anyone know?

 

[MolaKule]

Average Biodegradability of various Base Oils CEC L33 T82 Biodegradability for 2-4 cSt Fluids PAO - 64% Synthetic Esters - 95% LVI - Mineral Oils - 32% MVI - Mineral Oil - 22% HVI - Mineral Oils - 20% Edit: The higher the pecentage, the Faster the base oil decomposes under UV and bacteria. [ December 19, 2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[Dr. T]

What does Biodegradability have to do with cleanliness?? I will add here (again) that I switched my engine from BMW's 5-30 Group III "Fake Synthetic" due to killer sludge build-up after 1.5 yrs. (~40k mi.) and am getting slow, but sure cleaning with M-1 (a REAL Synthetic). I will add though, that I had MUCH more noticeable 'cleaning action' with a run of Delvac 1. When quetioning Mobil, the response was "both M-1 SS and Delvac 1 have equal engine cleaning abilities". Go figure...

 

[MolaKule]

Dr. T, This was addressed to Redlines who listed this as one of the advantages for synthetics, and then implied later that mineral oils were more biodegradeable than synthetics. "synthetic base fluids provide the following advantages: High-temperature stability Improved wear protection Reduced deposit formation Improved cold-temperature flow properties Extended service life Waste minimization through reduced consumption Energy conservation Low volatility Improved biodegradability Viscosity control over a wide range of temperatures" I would agree that Delvac 1 should provide more cleaning ability than its cousin M1. [ December 18, 2002, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[sprintman]

Why not do the job properly? Auto-RX with a good dino, then change to a syn to keep it clean. I ran M1, and D1 previously and yet the gunk in 3 PureONE filters (on my 3rd lot of Auto-Rx) is interesting indeed.

 

[Giles]

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Originally posted by sprintman: Why not do the job properly? Auto-RX with a good dino, then change to a syn to keep it clean. I ran M1, and D1 previously and yet the gunk in 3 PureONE filters (on my 3rd lot of Auto-Rx) is interesting indeed.

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I'm interested could you elaborate? Why are you running 3 lot's of Auto-Rx? Isnt' two the normal maximum required?