I recently read in one thread that motor oil with esters sticks to engine parts better after shutdown. Then I thought: Delvac 1 is 24 or 26 percent esters right? Maybe that makes it stick better to engine parts, and that's how it's able to show excellent wear numbers without using moly...it simply doesn't need it. It sounds good to me, but a person usually needs someone else to point out mistakes. What do you guys think? Does my theory sound right at all?
Delvac 1 and esters
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I can't answer your question, but I am wondering if a moly additive would be of advantage. Lubro Moly has a moly oil additive...
I doubt that its more than 2%, go to the Delvac site and click on MSDS.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/Product_Information/Engine_Oils___Diesel_Collection.asp
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/Product_Information/Engine_Oils___Diesel_Collection.asp
As far as I understand,yes. I sort of brought this up in this thread Schaeffer's moly EP Oil Treatment It seems If they use a thick ester in a lubricant the thick film lubricant regime has the vicuous friction of the thinner basestock but when you start getting into a thinner film lubricant regime the ester,being more polar tends to stay close to or on the surface taking on the characteristics of the thicker ester. If you can stay out of boundary lubrication (additives)and rely on the ester to provide a hydrodynamic film the coefficient of friction will be much lower.As far as I understand.
Hopefully Molecule can answer in more detail on this subject,I find it quite interesting.
Hopefully Molecule can answer in more detail on this subject,I find it quite interesting.
Castrol promotes this theory with their syns. There may be something to it, I think.
Moly, I think is a way to get a good anti-oxidant, but Mobil seems to have a different approach sometimes.
Moly seems to be a holy grail with some, but there are other ways to achieve the same results.
I'm not an expert, but I think you are correct.
Moly, I think is a way to get a good anti-oxidant, but Mobil seems to have a different approach sometimes.
Moly seems to be a holy grail with some, but there are other ways to achieve the same results.
I'm not an expert, but I think you are correct.
Bob, Mobil's MSDS sheets are notorious for never listing the total percentages of the various components in their oils. The only components they do list fully are the "reportable" ones, i.e., the ones that are potentially hazardous.
Some oil companies pretty much give "full disclosure" on the MSDS, but Mobil ain't one of 'em.
MolaKule
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Again, we have to look at the mircoscopic view which is the view at the surface of metal and how the ester oil film reacts with the metal, and the other view, which is the macroscopic or bulk oil view.
Microscopic view - Since an ester is a polar molecule, it attracts and attaches itself to the metal surface to form a film a couple of angstroms thick.
Macroscopic View - The engine oil not only needs to need to stay on the engines parts for rust prevention and corrosion protection during shutdown and wet weather operation, but many engine parts also need splash lubrication so you cant have an oil with high surface tension nor an oil with too much "cling" or "tack." Too much tack wouldn't be a good thing, as well as too much drain-off wouldn't be a good thing. So formulators have to strike balances or trade-offs.
Now when speaking of GL5 gear oils for hypoids and heavy-duty gear boxes, you need tack to bring the oil to the surfaces during rotation and to prevent excessive sling. So here, tack is good.
[ March 03, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Microscopic view - Since an ester is a polar molecule, it attracts and attaches itself to the metal surface to form a film a couple of angstroms thick.
Macroscopic View - The engine oil not only needs to need to stay on the engines parts for rust prevention and corrosion protection during shutdown and wet weather operation, but many engine parts also need splash lubrication so you cant have an oil with high surface tension nor an oil with too much "cling" or "tack." Too much tack wouldn't be a good thing, as well as too much drain-off wouldn't be a good thing. So formulators have to strike balances or trade-offs.
Now when speaking of GL5 gear oils for hypoids and heavy-duty gear boxes, you need tack to bring the oil to the surfaces during rotation and to prevent excessive sling. So here, tack is good.
[ March 03, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
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So, will a moly additive do any good when it's added to D1?
MolaKule
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Sure. Soluable moly will reduce friction and beef up the anti-oxidant capabilities.
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Thank you, sir. I shall procure a bottle of moly additive.
I believe though he is speaking of MoDTC . If you find a source for smaller quantities of this type let me know , I'd like to purchase some .
I would doubt that adding Moly to Delvac 1 will improve the properties. Certainly not disagreeing with Molakule, but first you need to have the correct moly. I would like to see a side by side comparison before I bit on this one. Just call me skeptical when Redline doesn't seem to put up better wear numbers than other oils in normalapplications. Moly comes into play after other AW additives can't cut the mustard.
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You guys don't make it easy for me.
Happiness comes in a bottle. An oil bottle, I mean.
MolaKule
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Moribundman,
As MB said, make sure the moly is the soluble type or MoTDC, and not the powdered MOS2.
Another way to get this soluble moly is to add a quart of Redline to the Delvac mix, but use say, Redline 10W40 or 10W30, or even Redline 5W40, or just buy Redline itself.
The Valvoline Engine Protector for high mileage cars has about 550 ppm moly which would make Delvac 1 a moly fluid with approx. 150 ppm of moly.
Look at it this way people, Redline is Delvac 1 on moly steroids.
But here is strong suggestion I always make:
Make up your mix and before putting into your engine, have Terry Dyson verify the viscosity and resulting add pack of you virgin oil.
I cannot stress this enough. Don't go around dumping this and that into your oil with verifcation.
[ March 04, 2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
As MB said, make sure the moly is the soluble type or MoTDC, and not the powdered MOS2.
Another way to get this soluble moly is to add a quart of Redline to the Delvac mix, but use say, Redline 10W40 or 10W30, or even Redline 5W40, or just buy Redline itself.
The Valvoline Engine Protector for high mileage cars has about 550 ppm moly which would make Delvac 1 a moly fluid with approx. 150 ppm of moly.
Look at it this way people, Redline is Delvac 1 on moly steroids.
But here is strong suggestion I always make:
Make up your mix and before putting into your engine, have Terry Dyson verify the viscosity and resulting add pack of you virgin oil.
I cannot stress this enough. Don't go around dumping this and that into your oil with verifcation.
[ March 04, 2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
JHZR2
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arent we running the poitential of causing all sorts of additive clash when adding redline to delvac 1?
Is 132 moly additive the 'right one or the 'wrong' one. Sure seems solubilized to me.
JMH
Is 132 moly additive the 'right one or the 'wrong' one. Sure seems solubilized to me.
JMH
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Well, seems easier to just use Red Line instead.
So, what's the reasoning behind D1 (and other oils for diesel engines) not containing moly? I'm sure there is a reason, after all that stuff has been concocted by people in the know, correct?
So, what's the reasoning behind D1 (and other oils for diesel engines) not containing moly? I'm sure there is a reason, after all that stuff has been concocted by people in the know, correct?
Rest assured Delvac-1 is 26% esters! Their was a mojor university study done comapreing 5W40 Synthetic against mineral 15W40. IT referenced the 5W40 as 26% TPE ester I belive and the rest was PAO. If my memory serves me right the only 5W40 SYnthetic available in the USA at the time of the Paper widely available was Delvac-1.
While the research paper showed little over all difference between the 15W40 mineral oil v.s. the Synthetic 5W40. THe OCI was 30,000 miles and that was the duraton of the study. The test was done in a warm area so no real cold weather.
I think I found that study online years ago when researching bypass filters for fleet use.
While the research paper showed little over all difference between the 15W40 mineral oil v.s. the Synthetic 5W40. THe OCI was 30,000 miles and that was the duraton of the study. The test was done in a warm area so no real cold weather.
I think I found that study online years ago when researching bypass filters for fleet use.
JHZR2
Staff member
I like the idea of verifying your oil before putting it into the engine. But, wouldnt an additive clash situation really show itself when:
1) temperatures are higher and thus kinetic rates are higher
2)additives start to actually get used and broken down
Thanks,
JMH
1) temperatures are higher and thus kinetic rates are higher
2)additives start to actually get used and broken down
Thanks,
JMH
Esters do have a polar affinity for metal. That is one reason they are a great choice for cars that are not driven often, or "lay up" for the winter.
Castrol even manufactures a product citing thisd fact, but of course it does not bring it into the US.
Here is the link:
http://www.castrol.com.au/products/magnatec/
Castrol even manufactures a product citing thisd fact, but of course it does not bring it into the US.
Here is the link:
http://www.castrol.com.au/products/magnatec/
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