Define "flush"

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First I'd like to dispense with any "potty humor"...Yes, 'flush' makes me think of a toilet, but in the context of a car, flushing is not done 10+ times a day, it is a once-a year thing, perhaps even once in the life of the car.
I ordered maybe 18 quarts of trans fluid, thinking I'd have a few quarts left over after the flush. Nope. So I refrained from yelling or accusing them of taking off with a few. Later was advised 'I suspect the transmission shop did a fluid exchange, pumping in the new fluid as the old was being removed. This is the preferred method, ideally you don't want to flush with a solvent and have a chance of leaving some behind in the system' I still don't understand what's wrong with draining the old fluid and putting in plain fluid for a month and then switching to the expensive stuff, sort of like with an engine: When I was a kid I dreamed of that magical engine flush that cleaned things in 5 or 10 minutes. A mechanic (very old-school; dropped out of elementary school to help out on the farm) advised the kerosene & Diesel fuel tricks. Now I see Auto-RX as the best "flush" because it takes a month to work, and that is NOT a bad thing. In fact it's far better than something that works in 10 minutes.
Did the trans shop actually get little pieces of crud out by rinsing them out with stuff that is that expensive? In the case of oil, trans fluid, brake fluid, power steering fluid, whatever; would it not be better to have a drain & fill with normal-grade stuff, and another drain & fill with the good stuff a month or so after?
What exactly is a flush in each of these contexts, how are they done, and why? And why is it better (or is it?) than two drain & fills in a short timeframe?
I know, I know: You can't just buy a car with few oil changes and 100,000+ miles on it, have 3000 mile OCI's for a year and proclaim it as clean as if you used LC, let alone Auto-RX. But if you had two oil changes a month apart, wouldn't that get out a lot of crud and act as a "flush"?
I hope you see what I am asking here. I've never seen a topic that approaches this in all my surfing of the site.
Let's dialogue!
Rob-the-oil-nut
 
quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:
rob-the-oil-nut, have you been imbibing? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I was just curious.

Yea..I had difficulty following. Can you shorten up the question???

There is no definition of flush. Also-in my opinion the power flush done by dealers with auto trannies is a mistake. I have known personally one or two trannies failing after the flush. Do a couple fill and drains.
 
quote:

rob-the-oil-nut, have you been imbibing? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I was just curious.

I thought I was the only one who thought that!
lol.gif


Not only can't I see the flush through the noise - ya missed the pot....so to speak. Wrong forum.

Yes sometimes it takes more that a case to flush. But, by that time you are so happy with the results it doesn't matter. The cheap stuff will do for this, usually under $1 per bottle. If you used the $7 bottle stuff.....whoowee.....ouch it will hurt worse in the morning.

What was your question again?
 
quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:
rob-the-oil-nut, have you been imbibing?

Two drops of Communion wine in the last week or month or something around that.
KNEW I should have made a rough draft...I'll try to re-phrase and assist you all in interpreting my English.
Later
Rob
 
OK, let me try again. This time I am not so tired.

I am still ticked because I got maybe 18 quarts of trans fluid from the US. Ordered a "flush."
I don't quite know what "flush" meant, or means (hence the posting) but they used ALL of my precious Redline. I smiled and paid and left, that's a bit nicer than screaming or accusing them of theft, right?
I whined (would that be a TRANSMISSION whine? Har-har-har) to an expert I won't name, and he emailed me "I suspect the transmission shop did a fluid exchange, pumping in the new fluid as the old was being removed. This is the preferred method: Ideally you don't want to flush with a solvent and have a chance of leaving some behind in the system"
If part of the job of trans fluid is to clean, then isn't it a (mild) solvent as you drive?
Wouldn't it be even better if I got the trans fluid changed (plain cheap fluid), and then changed again a month later (synthetic expensive fluid)? Or does it not work like that? I know it doesn't quite work like that with oil.

Back in the day when I thought I knew everything I thought the best flushes were the ones that took 10 mins, tops. Now I believe that slower is better: Take Auto-RX for example. Is it like that with trans flushes as well? Power steering fluid?
See, the oil and trans are done, so it's water under the bridge. But I want a power steering fluid change. Last mechanic said it was still OK & didn't do it. I still want it done (it was making bad noises in summer. None since it got cooler). So I am thinking have it changed and then have it changed again in a month or in spring. That sound like a good idea?
I look forward to hearing from you all.
Cheers
Rob-the-oil-nut
 
what make/model car?

when i asked the dealer to perform a "flush" they used very little fluid.

of course i own a honda which doesn't hold too much fluid anyway, but 18 quarts seems like too much.

i would investigate further.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Al:
Just change it several times. Same with the auto-tranny.

SWEET! So I am NOT the only one!
Off of my own topic but how does this apply to radiator?
Thanks

Seotaji: It's a 98 Bonneville, but the engine is a 2001 or 2002 Buick engine, swapped before I ever saw the car. 3800 Series II.
Thanks
 
I'll try it: A FLUSH is a changeout of fluid, sometimes with a solvent for cleaning, sometimes with just virgin fluid.

For an engine, it usually means putting in a solvent or cleaner, running the engine to raise temperature of activation, and then draining old oil and solvent.

A power flush for a transmission is where air pressure or such is used to "Purge" all fluid from the system. I have never recommended this.

A regular ATF flush is where new oil is sucked out from a virgin oil container and old fluid is purged or replaced by the new fluid using normal system pressure.

A partial flush for an auto tranny means dropping or draining just the pan and replacing the fluid you lost while dropping or draining the pan. This is the method I recommend.
 
Yikes is right!
shocked.gif


How did that happen?

I think someone flushed the toilet while I was editing it!
burnout.gif


[ November 04, 2004, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
A power flush for a transmission is where air pressure or such is used to "Purge" all fluid from the system. I have never recommended this.

A partial flush for an auto tranny means dropping or draining just the pan and replacing the fluid you lost while dropping or draining the pan. This is the method I recommend.


Wow MoleKule, you were almost a 4-flusher there
lol.gif

Wow; one week I'm getting made fun of (in hindsight I deserved it) and on the other, MolaKule replied a dandy of a reply! Thanks MoleKule! I don't have your training or books or anything but my gut instict is totally behind the above quotes. "Power flush" might sound cool but from what little I know about automatic transmissions (those this wafers of clutches and how very many of them there are) no one has any business blasting air in there. The idea that this "cleans" anything but the pan (once removed) is just NOT an idea that I like.
Even "only" raising the pressure to what it would be if I did a brake stand or casually went from drive to reverse sounds a bit dumb.
Which reminds me to start a new thread on the effects of "rocking" the car to get un-stuck. Yikes I feel like a thief when I do that!
I totally forgot if I have a trans fluid filter or not, but is there any reason to keep one (on trannies that have one) on when doing any variety of flush? I would think if the pan is off and you're in there anyway, you certainly should. But I'm open to the idea that there are things I do not know or see.

So what do you think is the best course of action for the power steering fluid? It's back to making a grindy sort of noise, and it is not all that cold. Maybe it isn't the fluid totally but I want to rule that out.

There is a reputable place that does radiator stuff, and I'm looking at maybe $150 for a flush, new cap and thermostat. Anything I should specify to have done? I am really inclined to supply them with $3 worth of water, "RO" or distilled. Our tap water is fine, and last time, they said it was not needed, but ya know what? The local CT's all stock jugs of water that are on the shelves next to the anti-freeze.
Maybe I'll post a used antifreeze analysis report around January?
THANKS!
Rob

[ November 05, 2004, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: rob-the-oil-nut ]
 
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