Dealer using 5W20 in Phoenix AZ!!!!

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I would be OCD over it while climbing 1k feet of rough terrain in 4 lo I probably don't need that distraction. But that data would be helpful as Ity would equate to documentation pof personal experience.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Do you understand the practical differences between these very similar multiviscosity oils? Does the ILSAC rating that they all meet require more stringent wear protection for one grade over the other?...tell me what grades have more stringent requirements outside of viscosity which again is only a nominal difference.


Then why don't they spec a 20wt from the factory for slightly better fuel economy and all that other stuff the thin guys love to talk about?

What about the HTHS difference. I would venture a guess that since they spec'd a 10w-30 and not a 5w-30, there may be a higher HTHS requirement for that engine.



There is no more stringent HTHS requirement for a 10w30 over a 5w30 they both require a minimum 2.9 most the time the HTHS is the same between these grades. a 2.9-3.1 much higher and they cannot pass the fuel economy requirements. The minimum for a 5w20 is 2.6. Again this number varies by the particular blends ability to meet the fuel economy requirement. SOme are up to 2.9 some ar edown near 2.6 the rough mean difference is .3 between any. Are you going to say you trust production tolerance to garantee .3 differnce if your engine really needs .3 hths difference for its durability?


Normally, no. But this is in extreme heat and freeway driving is known to produce fairly high oil temps. I wouldn't be surprised if the oil was running 220 degrees or more.

Please refresh my memory. I can't scroll back up without erasing what I've already written. Can you elaborate on these fuel economy requirements and were these in effect when the car was produced? I'm really asking, I'm not trying to be smart.

As for the HTHS, going from your numbers alone, there could be a HTHS difference of .5. I consider that signifigant. It *could* be as low as 2.6 which we all know is the lowest acceptable HTHS to prevent excessive wear. Personally, I don't want an oil that's only capable of preventing "excessive" wear. I want something with a huge safety margin. With that said, I would feel even less comfortable if the car spec'd a 30wt which would mean the minimum the manufacturer designed it to never see less than a 2.9.

On the HTHS topic yes that is the max possible difference or as you see it the worst case scenario. I express mine in mean numbers to avoid having to average all the PDS's I could pull.(to much work for our pace of discussion)

OK Fuel economy pass fail criteria from SWRI
Pass/fail criteria for ILSAC GF-4 and API SM (minimum %FEI versus ASTM BC)

SAE 0W-20 and 5W-20 viscosity grades:

2.3% min. after 16 hours aging (Phase I FEI)

2.0% min. after 96 hours aging (Phase II FEI)

SAE 0W-30 and 5W-30 viscosity grades:

1.8% min. after 16 hours aging (Phase I FEI)

1.5% min. after 96 hours aging (Phase II FEI)

All other SAE viscosity grades:

1.1% min. after 16 hours aging (Phase I FEI)

0.8% min. after 96 hours aging (Phase II FEI)
More info here
http://www.swri.org/4ORG/d08/GasTests/VIBtest/default.htm

Reviwing that data I must concede that a 10w30 May get away with a very slightl/higher HTHS than a 5 or 0w30 due to it having a less stringent FE pass/fail factor.


Thank you. I have some reading to do. Got to spend less time with the 20vs 30 wars and more time keeping up to date with specs.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
I would be OCD over it while climbing 1k feet of rough terrain in 4 lo I probably don't need that distraction. But that data would be helpful as Ity would equate to documentation pof personal experience.


I discovered a month ago that I can monitor trans temp in the work truck. All I've been doing for a month is trying different scenarios of locking/unlocking the convertor, higher load/lower rpm vs lower load/higher rpm, and everything in the middle. I find myself staring at the guage instead of the road. The less distractions for me, the better. Idiot lights FTW!
 
The Specs are actually more interesting than this long debate and I think there is alot in them (such as P limitations that some blenders carry into their non restricted viscosities so they can upsale racing oils! )
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
The Specs are actually more interesting than this long debate and I think there is alot in them (such as P limitations that some blenders carry into their non restricted viscosities so they can upsale racing oils! )


Wow. Very interesting but not surprising.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
But in all seriousness,I wouldn`t even think of running anything thinner than a 10W30/40 in a place as hot as AZ.


I live in PHX, the thinner oils are fine when they're called for. My brother has only 34K on his 07' F150 w/ the 5.4, nothing but 5w20 PP. My Mark VIII was back spec'd to 5w20, I used 5qts 5w30 and 1qt 5w20. Either would be fine, just a preference really.

Something that calls for 10w30 I'd never put 5w20 in.
 
If the engine is spec'd by the mfg for 10W30 and only 10W30 then I would have someone else change the oil. I am a big fan of 20 grade oils, that is in cars that call for a 20 grade oil. I frown upon dealers and mechanics that use oil that is not recommended for an engine, without telling the customer first.
 
Despite all the 'englightning' technical discussion here, we need to keep things simple: the vehicle calls for 10W-30 oil, so use 10W-30 oil. If you are still under warranty with this vehicle, and you need to make a claim, and they see you put 5W-20 in the vehicle, you will have a problem with Chrysler.....
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Despite all the 'englightning' technical discussion here, we need to keep things simple: the vehicle calls for 10W-30 oil, so use 10W-30 oil. If you are still under warranty with this vehicle, and you need to make a claim, and they see you put 5W-20 in the vehicle, you will have a problem with Chrysler.....


BINGO- The dealer probably got a deal on the oil, so now suddenly 1 size fits all. Stick with 5W20!
 
I was going through the records of a car I bought, to find that the dealer had put 10w-30 in for the first 3 years of the car's life when serviced. This for a car speced for 5w-20. I suspect dealers don't follow manufacuturers' recommendations for oil more than we might suspect.
 
Originally Posted By: ET16
I was going through the records of a car I bought, to find that the dealer had put 10w-30 in for the first 3 years of the car's life when serviced. This for a car speced for 5w-20. I suspect dealers don't follow manufacuturers' recommendations for oil more than we might suspect.


That's true. I talked to one of the Acura mechanics and while they have 5w-20 for sale on the shelves, everything that comes in there gets 10w-30. I don't have a problem with that since I use it anyway but it would be nice if they let the customer know first.
 
Thin oils...phooey!

I say the government should pass a law that no thin oils are allowed in hot states and no thick oils are allowed in cold states.

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Originally Posted By: M1Ark
I agree with the temperature differential except your argument is a little off. Rate of heat transfer is directly proportional to the difference in temperature. This means if outside air temperature is 20f warmer then the oil temp has to go up to raise the differential temperature to establish the same heat transfer rate.

Sorry... the engineer in me came out.


Yes, true, but your oil temp is a product of surplus btu's from the combustion process. You'll saturate your cooling jackets to 195F+ and any surplus they see will be sent out the rad. The oil will see that thermal pressure as its supply.

Let me try this a different way ..since I'm sure I'm unclear in saying this.

The oil warms much slower than the coolant. The coolant reaches 195F+/- and starts venting excess btu's to the rad. The oil, however, sees this same thermal surplus and has no regulation. It's soaking up and venting btu's in the warm up process and can't retain them. It will reach some level where btu production and rejection results in a (snap shot) stable temp. If that rejection rate decreases due to lack of differential with ambient, and the cooling system is of adequate capacity, it's should merely index up a tick or two (whatever) to restore the normal excess dumping through the cooling jackets.

That is, while coolant temp is more stable, btu through put is highly variable through the cooling jackets. Oil temp, while being unregulated (usually) may be down to the factor of the pan material composite for max btu throughput at highway speeds..

That is, while ambient plays a role in oil temp, it's not a direct relationship.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan


That is, while ambient plays a role in oil temp, it's not a direct relationship.


That's exactly my experience.
 
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