Dealer used 5.5qts for my 10qts capacity Blackwing

[TiGeo]

Fabulous logic comparing a door ding that has no impact whatsoever on a vehicle's value to about $40K engine damage due to the dealer's negligence. I don't place any blame on the guy who performed the oil change. It is up to the dealership to hire the right people for the job. That starts with the service manager who has to make sure that the people who handle customer's vehicles know what they're doing.

Here's a fact for you: I purchased my 2022 Dodge Durango GT Plus AWD with a door ding that I found only after I signed all the paperwork. The dealer wanted their body shop to fix it, but I turned them down because I didn't want them taking apart the door on a brand new vehicle and applying Bondo and paint to it. Instead, I opted for a paintless dent repair, and asked the dealer to reimburse. They happily agreed and all was well. By the way, the dent repair was $150 and it took a couple of hours. So no, a door ding doesn't even compare as it cannot have the life altering impact on a person that a $40K engine repair can.


He probably never watched Dr. House.


I agree, mistakes like these are unacceptable. Then again, consider that there are some who like to post comments to trigger others. I'm a hundred percent sure that a hundred percent of the people on this forum would be outraged and find it unacceptable if this happened to them. Sadly enough, some like to trigger other for their own entertainment.

Speaking of triggering, I wonder about @LT4Life. His story sounds genuine, however, I wouldn't put it past anyone to start a thread like this and then sit back and enjoy the bickering. He hasn't posted a single update, or even pictures of his vehicle. I find it hard to believe that someone who can afford a $100K vehicle has a problem dealing with a situation like this. Successful people aren't lazy and don't embrace mediocrity, at all. They expect no less from others, and typically they are on top of situations like these. Since none of us can give him an answer for sure, I stand by my suggestion that he should consult with GM/Cadillac engineering and customer service and then take it from there. I'm sure that once he takes action in that direction, the dealership will be more amenable to working with him, whatever it is that he wants to do, including trading in his vehicle for a new one. The dealership caused this problem for the OP, it's on them to make it right. Why should he have to live with the fear of catastrophic engine failure and even deal with it at some point, because the dealership was negligent with his property?

What if GM says there is no damage/it's fine? You think he should get a car out of this if there is nothing damaged?

I would certainly be upset if this was me - but if the dealer/GM says there is no issue/damage, what else can I really do? I said it - get that this happened in writing and get on with my life and see you at the track.

 

[TiGeo]

Ehhh, it’s a wet sump car, it’s not complicated.

The problem is that your experienced techs are already doing work that makes them (and the business) money. No experienced flat rate tech making $40+ an hour is going to be happy about doing an oil change unless there is no other work. Like PDIs this is a time fill job for them.

Yep - a 20K and 100K car both get the same treatment whether folks think that is ok or not..that just....is how it is.

 

[dogememe]

Oil changes are not complicated. I am not a trained professional. Yet I've NEVER made a mistake during an oil change. Never left a drain plug loose, never double-gasketed an oil filter, never put the wrong amount of oil in. Despite the fact I usually work on my cars or my moms car or whatever after a long day at work when I'm tired. Plus I have ADHD so focusing on what I'm doing isn't the easiest. Why? Because I care what I'm doing and want to do it right. This is the issue here. Whoever did the oil change on OP's beautiful car doesn't care. Because if you cared, you wouldn't do something like this. OK, so you put the wrong amount of oil in? Mistakes happen. But you'd check the dipstick afterward because that's just the common sense correct thing to do, at which point you'd notice something was wrong, and recheck your work.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

What if GM says there is no damage/it's fine?

Then it's fine. I'd get that in writing though.

but if the dealer/GM says there is no issue/damage

The dealer is not the same as GM. There is a conflict of interest here, as the dealer wants to wash their hands of this. GM on the other hand has nothing at stake here and can render a neutral opinion, which shouldn't be to complicated as the facts are known.

I said it - get that this happened in writing and get on with my life and see you at the track.

And then you changed your mind because "what if it gets on his CarFax... and results in diminished value..."

For me this is an intellectual exercise, nothing more. At the end of the day it's up to @LT4Life to deal with the situation and take whatever course of action he deems appropriate. If there is a situation at all to deal with... that is. It's not the first time someone started a thread here and then watched everyone bicker, not to mention those that like to chime in just so they can trigger others. Subjects like the one discussed here tend to trigger people because issues like someone being negligent with your vehicle hits home. It happened to me a few times, like one time when I was hit by a distracted driver and then the shop took three months and four repair attempts to finally get the repair right. At the end of the day it's up to each person to have enough dignity and self respect to care about their own property and hard earned money, and not to expect anyone else to. It is the world we live in today, like it or not.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Ehhh, it’s a wet sump car, it’s not complicated.

Then there should have been no screwup. Put nice quarts in, check the level. You're dumb, you don't know how to look up how much oil it needs, then go quart by quart and the in half quart increments until you reach the top of the fill level on the dipstick. Then start the car, let it run, turn it off, check again. Rocket science? I don't think so.

The problem is that your experienced techs are already doing work that makes them (and the business) money. No experienced flat rate tech making $40+ an hour is going to be happy about doing an oil change unless there is no other work. You’re not going to pull a guy off a head gasket job (which also as discussed before can cause other problems by interrupting work flow) to do an oil change.

That's all good and well, but why should the customer care about any of that?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Whoever did the oil change on OP's beautiful car doesn't care. Because if you cared, you wouldn't do something like this.

^^^^
This right here.

And a dealership, and even a mechanic tech, can be held liable for negligence.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Then there should have been no screwup. Put nice quarts in, check the level. You're dumb, you don't know how to look up how much oil it needs, then go quart by quart and the in half quart increments until you reach the top of the fill level on the dipstick. Then start the car, let it run, turn it off, check again. Rocket science? I don't think so.


That's all good and well, but why should the customer care about any of that?

The mistake the guy made was assuming the capacity and not checking the dipstick. I think we have all acknowledged that.

The customer shouldn’t care. I’m just countering your argument that it is bad management to have the oil change junior guy do this job. It’s a Cadillac/GMC dealer. They’re doing oil changes on 100k Escalades and 3500’s in a daily basis. It’s not some special thing to do an oil change on an expensive vehicle.

As far as not caring, I don’t buy it. Anything is possible, but it’s also perfectly reasonable to believe the guy simply made a mistake.

 

[Thumper3]

The last comment I want to make is the V series is a special car. Whether I make minimum wage, or $1 mil/yr, that doesn't change.

Who cares if it's a "special" car, it's someone's property who is paying for a service and should be treated as such. My TTRS is the only one of it's spec in the US, it is literally irreplaceable and when I take it in to the dealer I don't demand any special treatment because I shouldn't need to. They should treat every customer's car the same from the base A3 to the guy with the RS6 Avant.

I wouldn't deem to look down on the base A3, that may be that person's pride and joy that they scraped and saved to get. It may likely represent the same percentage of income as the 'special' cars to their owners. Same goes for a base model KIA or Hyundai, so what if they don't make $1000/day. To suggest that a tech should look at it and say "Eh, it's just a base Cruze, just jack it up on the pinch welds with a floor jack and hand tighten the drain, whatever." is an acceptable action but a Blackwing pulls in and they should be like "Oh man, let's take care of this guy!!" is part of what is wrong in society.

A V is like a BMW M, so it should be treated well at a dealership.

Pretty sure that is blasphemy right there lol


Ultimately though, it's a car and a mistake was made and sounds like the dealership is owning up to the mistake and willing to offer reasonable concessions. Everyone here who is calling for blood I am assuming you have NEVER made a mistake or an oversight in your life? It may have been a lazy tech, or it could have been a young kid learning a new skill to better themselves (maybe even dreaming of owning a Blackwing someday) who just made a mistake reading the chart. To go full blown "Karen" and screaming for a new car is just ridiculous. The car is not "ruined" until someone takes it apart to prove it is "ruined", sure we can't prove it's not ruined from this side of the internet but also in that vein it can not be proved it IS ruined. If the OP wants to make that claim he will have to prove it, no court in the world would find against the dealership without any proof to support the claim. At best if it can be proved the engine/SC was damaged beyond any further serviceable life in the 20 miles driven lightly without an oil pressure warning a new engine/SC would be the top of a reasonable expectation.

^^^^
This right here.

And a dealership, and even a mechanic tech, can be held liable for negligence.

Dude, you don't know the tech "didn't care". Again, feel free to grab a stone if I'm wrong and your life is free of any mistakes.


And yes, yes they can be sued for negligence......again.......that will have to be PROVEN and sadly the ramblings on BITOG are not admissible in a court of law where that will be determined.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

The mistake the guy made was assuming the capacity and not checking the dipstick. I think we have all acknowledged that.

The customer shouldn’t care. I’m just countering your argument that it is bad management to have the oil change junior guy do this job. It’s a Cadillac/GMC dealer. They’re doing oil changes on 100k Escalades and 3500’s in a daily basis. It’s not some special thing to do an oil change on an expensive vehicle.

As far as not caring, I don’t buy it. Anything is possible, but it’s also perfectly reasonable to believe the guy simply made a mistake.

I've read most of this thread, so let's put one and two together:

• The OP claimed that he had to put in 4.5 quarts to bring up the oil to the full level. The system takes 9 quarts of oil. That means that the tech put in 4.5 quarts of oil.
• The service advisor told the OP that the right amount of oil was used after checking the inventory. I know that techs have to account for the fluids they use, just like for any other part. So where did the rest of the oil go.
• If the tech was distract, then when he returned, why did he sign off on the vehicle without checking it first?

I agree with @dogememe, it was neglect.

 

[John105]

My co hired a contractor out of Houston to help me with a project.

He inadvertently knocked out 29 of our sites and I see a missed call. I called him back after my son’s karate.

He asked me if I think my boss will fire him. I said, no way! I wasn’t about to get into the fact that we can’t hire anybody and it’s like a revolving door with anyone with his skill set.

He said he feels sick to his stomach about what he did. I told him forget it I can tell you stories about mistakes I’ve made in my career (I cost my co $700k once, lookit what Tucker Carlson cost his former employer). But these are at higher levels than an oil change. I documented my mistake and reached out to Bell Labs. They stated my actions should not have caused what happened and it’s their software.

So yes there are all kinds of mistakes that go on every day

Edit to put it in perspective, I’m in a different industry now. Mistakes coworkers have made have cost my employer in the tens of millions. A lot is at stake today as well, but these scenarios are more complex than an oil change of course which is not a moving target

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Dude, you don't know the tech "didn't care". Again, feel free to grab a stone if I'm wrong and your life is free of any mistakes.

"Dude" - it's an oil change, not brain surgery. Since the tech couldn't be bothered to check the dipstick at least once, it's neglicence, not a mistake.

Here is the dipstick:

 

[LT4Life]

This thread really got active! Thanks for all of your input and different perspectives. Although still miffed, I feel fairly confident now that no damage was done.

I was waiting to update as the dealer said they'd get back to me Tues. or Wed. about the powertrain warranty but things got delayed. I had them change the oil again yesterday and ensured they used the correct oil type, amount, and filter, and triple-checked the dipstick after. At least from how the car drives and behaves, all seems well.

The service advisor was optimistic that they would be able to cover the extended powertrain warranty, but that has yet to be confirmed. They remain quite apologetic and are not trying to weasel out of their mistake, which I appreciate as I know a lot of dealers would handle this differently.

With regards to the tech being young, underpaid, rushed, what have you - that is no excuse and it's up to both the tech and the dealer to ensure very basic quality of work. My high school and college job was a bicycle mechanic, and despite being paid a few cents more than minimum wage for much of that time, I always did a top-quality job regardless of what the task was or how tired I was, and that work was checked by a superior before headed out the door. If I don't do a good job on the brakes or wheels or handlebars of a $199 kid's bike, the consequences could be dire and there is no room for half-assing things. And if an $8,000 carbon mountain bike rolled in... this teenager being paid $7/hr wasn't working on it! The service manager would, and he would take his time.

Not saying I deserve better service simply because I paid more, but often top-end models require a certain level of care and attention, even if it's simply because it takes twice the amount of fluids vs. 95% of the other models that are rushed in and out the door. It's the same in any line of work - if you want to work on the most expensive, biggest, best, etc. you have to prove yourself and work your way up. I get that mistakes are made by people at all levels, but the fact the dipstick was not checked either just shows how little effort or mindspace was expended.

At the end of the day this is a very basic job that could result in a five-figure bill if even a simple mistake is made. The dipstick is there for a reason (and I certainly learned my lesson to always check it myself from now on).

 

[LT4Life]

Since people asked, here is my pride and joy. First new car, first American car, first car I've ever spent this much on (first car I've spent over $45k for in fact). Given I had literally just finished the 1,500 mile break in after 14 months of waiting for the car I ordered and had finally put the loud pedal to the floor and ripped off a couple of no-lift shifts, I was even more outraged when this happened at 1,687 miles...

 

[TiGeo]

The dealer is not the same as GM.

Why I said "dealer/GM" = meaning both. Yes, GM is not the dealer and may give you a different answer as you pointed out and I agree with.

And then you changed your mind because "what if it gets on his CarFax... and results in diminished value..."

I haven't changed my mind? It was simple a mental excerise exploring what could come of this w/r to potential diminished value. I don't get hung up on this crap b/c I buy cars, pay for them, and drive them so the constant concern of some (who I was refering to) of what value this and value that things can have like accidents, repairs, is not been a concern of mine to-date. The only time this coud impact price is private sale. Trading in your car - the dealers really don't give two flips about what's on the Carfax beyond "it was sorted". A vehicle like this is super niche and folks buying them are either keeping forever or are trade it every few years.

 

[LT4Life]

Extra update: I did message one of the heads of the Blackwing project on another forum yesterday and he said I should be okay since I reacted as soon as I got the warning. He suggested doing a Blackstone analysis at the next change but that was just done yesterday - I should have asked them to save the oil.

 

[TiGeo]

The mistake the guy made was assuming the capacity and not checking the dipstick. I think we have all acknowledged that.

The customer shouldn’t care. I’m just countering your argument that it is bad management to have the oil change junior guy do this job. It’s a Cadillac/GMC dealer. They’re doing oil changes on 100k Escalades and 3500’s in a daily basis. It’s not some special thing to do an oil change on an expensive vehicle.

As far as not caring, I don’t buy it. Anything is possible, but it’s also perfectly reasonable to believe the guy simply made a mistake.

Bingo. My son was changing oil on $100K GMC Yukons daily and he's in HS working for the most part unsupervised. The rub I have is assuming that a mistake = don't care/lazy etc. that is being talked about here. Maybe he is! I have no idea so I don't assume it's the case.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

@LT4Life thanks for the update. I'm glad this was a genuine thread and concern. Once in a while someone will start a thread about a hot-button issue and then people will bicker until it gets shut down by one of the moderators.

At the end of the day it's your vehicle and you know what's best. Contacting GM about this would be the best thing you can do. If something happens down the line you have proof that you did everything you could to improve the situation. Supercharged LT4 engines aren't cheap. It's one thing to talk to someone on a forum, another to talk to the OEM in an official capacity.

He suggested doing a Blackstone analysis at the next change but that was just done yesterday - I should have asked them to save the oil.

Don't use Blackstone. Do ~500 miles and get a sample via the dipstick tube. This will help you establish a baseline. Get yourself a couple of kits from AMSOIL for Oil Analyzers. Then do another sample at 5000 miles, or sooner. If you have excessive wear in the tipple digits then it will show even at 500 miles.

Other good options are Wearcheck and SPEEDiagnostix. Lake Speed Jr. runs SPEEDiagnostix and he is very experienced when it comes to high end engines, so you can use his service with confidence. If there is an issue, he will find it and point it out to you: https://www.speediagnostix.com/

Lastly, don't rely on the service advisor. Talk to GM, then talk to the service manager at the very least. Service advisors don't have any power, and in my experience, they can be airheads at times. Four years ago a guy at my RAM dealership put in 68K miles in their system as I went there for a recall and the truck had 18K miles on the odometer. It took several phone calls to Chrysler and emails to CarFax to get that corrected. Talk about wasted time for no good reason...

 

[TiGeo]

With regards to the tech being young, underpaid, rushed, what have you - that is no excuse and it's up to both the tech and the dealer to ensure very basic quality of work. My high school and college job was a bicycle mechanic, and despite being paid a few cents more than minimum wage for much of that time, I always did a top-quality job regardless of what the task was or how tired I was, and that work was checked by a superior before headed out the door. If I don't do a good job on the brakes or wheels or handlebars of a $199 kid's bike, the consequences could be dire and there is no room for half-assing things. And if an $8,000 carbon mountain bike rolled in... this teenager being paid $7/hr wasn't working on it! The service manager would, and he would take his time.

Same here, HS/college/grad school bicycle mechanic. Lots of fun. I made mistakes and can admit that and as you state, there was as system in-place (having it checked) to prevent issues from leaving on those bikes b/c someone could get hurt. The dealer in the end was responsible to set in place a system that prevents this issue b/c as some of us keep saying...they can and do happen when humans are involved for a myriad of reasons just like safey accidents etc. Glad it's getting sorted out. Cool car.

 

[TiGeo]

Lastly, don't rely on the service advisor.

They are sales people, not technical people - they sell service. 100% on this. They often aren't well versed in anything beyond selling the services and communcation from the techs to the customer of things that are going on etc. Service manager for sure.

 

[JHZR2]

Looks like enough has been said and this is off the rails. Lock time.