Dead Horse Warning: What's with the short OCI's?

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
My 2012 Equinox 2.4 gets the oil changed every 2000 miles or 3 months. The really black, doesn't look or smell like oil stuff that comes out needs changed. I don't need to see a UOA to tell me what I hear, see and smell. At close to the 2K/3 mo the VVT valve train starts to get noticeably louder.


Wow.... really?

I can run 15,000 miles on my 4.6 Ford mod motor and the oil is still a nice golden brown.

 

[bigj_16]

what I never understand on this board is this:
The mantra goes something like this. "Use the cheapest certified oil and change at the OLM or manufacturer's recommendation"

If you feel that why, why even come on this board?

Up until about 2005 or so, I always changed the oil on my vehicles. Around that time, I realized all the new vehicles I had purchased in the 15 years previous, had not used any oil, the oil always looked almost new at OCI, and no fuel smell, etc. So, I just started getting the oil changed with bulk Phillips 66 at the Firestone every 5k. I always checked oil a few times early on in a new vehicle, and then every 1000 miles or so then on. We are talking 7 new vehicles from about that time up until this year. Different brands, different models, different oil grades, pretty much the same observations. Then this year, we purchased two new Ford F-150 2.7 Ecoboosts. I checked oil at the dealer, and then at about 500 miles. I then noticed the oil, in both, was markedly darker, and had a distinct gasoline smell. Checking the oil every few hundred miles, it was getting darker and smellier. I also had the smoke on start one time with the 2016. So, I started doing some research and found the Ford TSB. Starting reading on LSPI and fuel dilution. At this point, I realized these TDI engines were markedly different, than what had come before.In addition, this is kind of mirroring, in general, what is going on in the industrial diesel world, with the Tier standards. I should have seen it coming. So, UOA's at about 2k miles for both. Not encouraging. Low visco. Changed oil myself on the '16. UOA at 2800 miles of oil use. Not encouraging. Low visco and fuel. With that in mind, am going to change the oil at "short" intervals until I get decent readings. Anyone that "advises" me to change oil at OLM setting is a moron.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071

-10,000 miles on a good synthetic is much different than 10,000 miles on the cheapest quickie lube conventional


It depends.

Lots of tests have proven this to not be true, in most cases.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I have two late model Camrys, the in dash oil change monitors, as the manual promises, come on at 5000 miles, so 7500 is NOT the norm.


Funny here I thought that was a Maintenance Required indicator. Where every 5k the tires should be rotated, fluid level checks, floor mat checked etc. And the oil is to be changed every 10k miles or every year whichever comes first.

 

[Nick1994]

It depends on everyone's situation. Some people short trip their cars, are anticipating a long trip so changing early, and some people are just too scared to stretch it out.

I change the oil on my Jeep real often, usually by 3k miles or less, which is about a year. I've got a stash of $1 per quart clearance oil so $6 for an oil change (I'll leave the Fram Ultra on for a while longer) isn't going to break the bank.

 

[Tdog02]

Originally Posted By: Dumc87
From reading here and what I've noticed is it's all application specific.

My Matrix, I'd like to go 7,500-10,000 mile OCI's on a good synthetic, however it calls for a 5w20 or 0w20, and I'm not sold on a good synthetic being robust enough to protect in Florida heat at an Xw20 weight. I am awaiting an analysis of Castrol Edge HM 5w20 with 6,200 miles to see how that oil looks. Those results will affect my future judgement. Current OCI is Mobil1 EP 5w20.

My G20, I am fully confident I can do 5,000 with Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0w40. Probably could go 7,500. But for now I am okay with changing it out ahead of time because the cost isn't very high and still exceeds my original thinking of 3,000 mile OCI or the engine explodes

The Jeep however, gets changed every six months or 3,000 miles due to the mileage; 282K and going. I will probably stick with Valvoline Maxlife 10w40 though. The HDEO 15w40 seems a bit thick and I diluted it with some Pennzoil 0w20 I had on hand.

SO! All my reading and (limited) experience leads me to think 3-10K OCI's vary wildly.

Big reason as to why there is no "Best oil"


application specific just about sums it up!

 

[WyrTwister]

I do a oil / filter change ( myself with assistance , if it is available ) on our Chevy Sonic at about 55% and 5% on the OLM .

Oil ( Dexos synthetic ) purchased on sale , filters < $ 2.00 each , delivered from RockAuto.com . Does not cost that much .

Why ? Many of the reasons stated . And because it is my money , makes me feel more secure , does not hurt any one or ant thing , and I was raised with the 3,000 mile OCI .

Can not understand why anyone else should care about my short OCI ?

Best wishes ,

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
I do a oil / filter change ( myself with assistance , if it is available ) on our Chevy Sonic at about 55% and 5% on the OLM .

Oil ( Dexos synthetic ) purchased on sale , filters < $ 2.00 each , delivered from RockAuto.com . Does not cost that much .

Why ? Many of the reasons stated . And because it is my money , makes me feel more secure , does not hurt any one or ant thing , and I was raised with the 3,000 mile OCI .

Can not understand why anyone else should care about my short OCI ?

Best wishes ,

I care only about you, not your OCI

 

[SilverSnake]

Originally Posted By: bigj_16
what I never understand on this board is this:The mantra goes something like this. "Use the cheapest certified oil and change at the OLM or manufacturer's recommendation"


Great post. Actually, I think the mantra reads; "Use the cheapest certified dino oil and buy anything other than OEM filters (i.e. go with FRAM) and change filters every other oil change. Spend your oil money on UOAs instead of changing the oil and try to stretch out OCIs to the absolute maximum time and miles. Always consider the manufacturer's recommendations for oil and OCIs as a pack of lies which are part of a massive industry conspiracy to cheat all customers.

 

[SF0059]

I'm no doubt one of the folks you saw, changing the Mazda's oil at around 5k each time.

Contrary to the knee-jerk answers you have received so far, I have a few well thought out reasons why I am sticking to the "severe service" schedule. It is not because of fear, because I was doing 12k mi OCIs on my previous vehicle, a 2013 RAV4, with good UOAs.

Here is why I (and perhaps others) stick with lower mileage on certain engines:

#1 - Direct Injection. I'm not going to extend the OCI until I am convinced through a GC UOA that there is not fuel dilution. There are some engines, like Hyundai/Kia GDIs, that just shouldn't be extended due to dilution.

#2 - Warranty. Mazda calls for between a 5-7.5 OCI. My maintenance schedule make 5k easier, which brings me to my last reason...

#3 - Time: The Mazda is very aggressively cambered, requiring 5k tire rotations to keep wear even. If I am rotating the tires, I'm going to be changing the oil at the same time. At this period in my life my time is precious and I'm not going to split up tasks.

All that to say, it isn't as simple as saying people are afraid, stuck in the past or just ignorant. Some of us have our reasons for shortish UOAs.

PS - My Honda chews up oil like it is bubble gum. I also change at OLM 15%, which is usually right around 5-6k. Again, relatively short, but the UOAs show that by that point the oil is done.

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: SF0059
I'm no doubt one of the folks you saw, changing the Mazda's oil at around 5k each time.

Contrary to the knee-jerk answers you have received so far, I have a few well thought out reasons why I am sticking to the "severe service" schedule. It is not because of fear, because I was doing 12k mi OCIs on my previous vehicle, a 2013 RAV4, with good UOAs.

Here is why I (and perhaps others) stick with lower mileage on certain engines:

#1 - Direct Injection. I'm not going to extend the OCI until I am convinced through a GC UOA that there is not fuel dilution. There are some engines, like Hyundai/Kia GDIs, that just shouldn't be extended due to dilution.

#2 - Warranty. Mazda calls for between a 5-7.5 OCI. My maintenance schedule make 5k easier, which brings me to my last reason...

#3 - Time: The Mazda is very aggressively cambered, requiring 5k tire rotations to keep wear even. If I am rotating the tires, I'm going to be changing the oil at the same time. At this period in my life my time is precious and I'm not going to split up tasks.

All that to say, it isn't as simple as saying people are afraid, stuck in the past or just ignorant. Some of us have our reasons for shortish UOAs.

PS - My Honda chews up oil like it is bubble gum. I also change at OLM 15%, which is usually right around 5-6k. Again, relatively short, but the UOAs show that by that point the oil is done.

Is the Honda a DI engine?

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Other things to keep in mind are:

-Most dealerships make more money servicing and repairing vehicles than they do vehicle sales
-The manufacturer does not care how long your vehicle lasts outside of warranty
-10,000 miles on a good synthetic is much different than 10,000 miles on the cheapest quickie lube conventional
-10,000 miles of easy highway driving is different than 10,000 miles of short trip driving


"-The manufacturer does not care how long your vehicle lasts outside of warranty"....preposterous!!! EVERY manufacturer cares about longevity. The kids buying the old cars of today become the new car buyers of tomorrow. And they....have memories.

 

[SF0059]

Originally Posted By: bigj_16

Is the Honda a DI engine?


No, it isn't. But this particular J-Series V6 is known for being hard on oil, along with the Nissan VQ. But the issue with those isn't fuel dilution.

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: SF0059
Originally Posted By: bigj_16

Is the Honda a DI engine?


No, it isn't. But this particular J-Series V6 is known for being hard on oil, along with the Nissan VQ. But the issue with those isn't fuel dilution.

It is just a mean engine and hates its' oil.

I know Honda is replacing the V-6 in the new Accord for 2018 with a turbo 4. I don't don't anything about it, but I would assume it is a TDI?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: SF0059
Originally Posted By: bigj_16

Is the Honda a DI engine?


No, it isn't. But this particular J-Series V6 is known for being hard on oil, along with the Nissan VQ. But the issue with those isn't fuel dilution.

It is just a mean engine and hates its' oil.

I know Honda is replacing the V-6 in the new Accord for 2018 with a turbo 4. I don't don't anything about it, but I would assume it is a TDI?


Will Honda still be producing a V6?

 

[homeyclaus]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
They're trying to avoid the formation of varnish.

Nobody wants stir-fry pan stains on the inside of their engine.


Like this? Modern oils have fancier detergents than what was used here.



I am going to go out on a limb but my friend's engine here had been running non-approved oil (who knows, SA grade Dollar Store oil for all I know), overloaded, towing, for extended OCIs until a rod bearing turned to mush. ETA: Oh and the aux coolant pump failed too. That'll coke oil in a VW for sure.

 

[homeyclaus]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: homeyclaus
So let me start another thread on this. It's now 2017. Newer cars have oil life monitors. Yet I see late model cars in the UOA section with 5000 mile or less OCIs, with great results and lots of life left on the oil. Why? I mean it's better than 3000 mile OCI's, since we're not in the 70's anymore, but 7500 mi OCIs have been the norm for Japanese designs for over 15 years now.
I have two late model Camrys, the in dash oil change monitors, as the manual promises, come on at 5000 miles, so 7500 is NOT the norm.


So does my Tundra, but it's for a tire rotation and an oil change every other light. At least that's what the FSM and friendly owner's manual say to me.

 

[homeyclaus]

And to clarify - I didn't say ignore your oil life monitor when it says "change it." I too have changed oil with 15% life remaining, because weather was good and snow in the forecast, and I had a half hour without supervision.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: SilverSnake

Great post. Actually, I think the mantra reads; "Use the cheapest certified dino oil and buy anything other than OEM filters (i.e. go with FRAM) and change filters every other oil change. Spend your oil money on UOAs instead of changing the oil and try to stretch out OCIs to the absolute maximum time and miles. Always consider the manufacturer's recommendations for oil and OCIs as a pack of lies which are part of a massive industry conspiracy to cheat all customers.


If the industry is truly out to screw customers, they're doing a lousy job it by having mfg oil/filter rebates and sales going on for years now to buy very inexpensive, top quality synthetic and synthetic blend oils.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

My Cherokee has an OLM and right now I'm at 16% with about 8400 miles on VWB...going to start changing it every 5000-6000 (or sooner if OLM prompts it), I just feel funny running that long with only 6 quarts in the sump. Oil is cheap, engines aren't!!