CVT Durability in 2012 S ubaru outback

[Al]

A friend has 87K miles on her Outback. She comes to me for advice on her vehicle. I am a Subaru guy. The 4sp auto was rock solid. But Fluid should be changed periodically IMHO.

I really don't know whether to advise her to change the CVT fluid. Part of me sais it would be a good idea but part of me says don't change it... the unit is assembled in very clean conditions (so I am told). The other part of me says to have it changed.

Thoughts/experiences.

 

[bbhero]

Some people believe it should be changed every 60k miles, others longer. The Nissan CVTs have a way to use the Nissan consult scanner used to detect fluid deterioration. In these cases where the scan is used most have no need to change it until past 120k miles all the way up over 180k. I would be willing to bet that Subaru uses a similar system. I would go according to that. Obviously you would want to use the OEM fluid. That much should be non negotiable in my opinion.

 

[JTK]

I've yet to read of a failure of a Subaru CVT and have seen a few 100K+ mile posts in regards to them.

I know I would have wanted a CVT fluid change by 87K miles, but I'm sure it would be a costly dealer proposition.

 

[ExMachina]

IIRC, the ZF-designed Ford Freestyle CVT (ok, different in some respects), which was a variant of the one used in Mini's, was changed every 60,000 miles.
What does the Subaru owners manual say? Wouldn't hurt to change it of course, but the service schedule could just be followed for something like that.

I just checked a couple of things on the web. Sounds like Subaru says do it if you're towing something a lot. I'd say for severe service, change it every 4 or 5 years, and everybody else in normal service ought to at 100,000 miles or 7 years.

 

[Al]

Thanks for the comments. Yea I need to see what the manual recommends and I will go over to Subaru tomorrow to talk to the service manager. Thanks.

 

[Al]

Thanks for the comments. Yea I need to see what the manual recommends and I will go over to Subaru tomorrow to talk to the service manager. Thanks.

 

[Rand]

I'd change it their idea of lifetime fill and my idea of the lifetime the transmission should last probably arent the same.

Empty transmission into 3$ oil drain pan. Measure.. usually by dumping it into an empty 5qt oil jug with funnel.

refill with oem fluid exact amount you drained.

Sleep well.

the maintenance schedule has nothing on it for cvt replacement interval.

I believe 60k miles is plenty long.

Also change the front and rear diff gear oil.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Rand
I'd change it their idea of lifetime fill and my idea of the lifetime the transmission should last probably arent the same.

Empty transmission into 3$ oil drain pan. Measure.. usually by dumping it into an empty 5qt oil jug with funnel.

refill with oem fluid exact amount you drained.

Sleep well.

the maintenance schedule has nothing on it for cvt replacement interval.

I believe 60k miles is plenty long.

Also change the front and rear diff gear oil.




Right, the issue with that, and the reason why even I won't touch it just yet, is for the same reason the OP suggests: the supposed detrimental effect of contaminants being much worse than the degraded oil being replaced.

Anyone who has changed ATF fluid knows that something HAS to get in there, even if it's just a little. I think, for this reason, I'd rather find a dealer who has done a ton of these and just pay the money. Either that, or I'll need many more success stories on DIY before I tackle this myself.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

CVT's have come such a long way in such a short time. Pre-2000 CVT's like the Civic HX and Justy require fluid changes at least every 15k or they will fail!

I hope these CVT's have a drain plug

 

[sicko]

I'm for doing a drain and fill, but it's because of my feelings towards standard automatic transmissions, and not because of any specific knowledge of CVTs.

However, because of what I've heard about Subaru CVTs and how precise you should keep the fluid, I'd suggest paying for a dealer to do it.

 

[Eddie]

What does the owners manual suggest? If Subaru doesn't suggest a mileage, then I would change it at ~ 60,000. Ed

 

[horse123]

Someone on NASIOC blew up their CVT within warranty, they said it would have cost like $8000 to replace outside of warranty, which would probably end up totaling any subaru more than like 5 years after it was bought.

Other than that, not a single issue. Defects happen, and even just "it happens" defects seem to be extremely below average for the Subaru CVTs.

There's a tuner in australia that reports a few CVTs running an AVO turbo kit with no issues.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Empty transmission into 3$ oil drain pan. Measure.. usually by dumping it into an empty 5qt oil jug with funnel.

refill with oem fluid exact amount you drained.

Luckily, I have Mityvac 7201. I can do ATF, CVT change easily without hassle. It has 2,4,6 and 8L marks on the container so it is easy to see how much fluid is extracted. The 2014 Accord LX has CVT too, but I don't know he maintenance schedule, I need to get the manual from my daughter to read and prepare to do it.

I bought this fluid extractor to do oil change for my E430, and it turned out to be much more useful than expected.

 

[JOD]

I've replaced the CVT fluid in my Freestyle every 30K (drain and fill, gets out about 60% of the fluid), and the full-flow filter every 60K. Yeah, I get that it's "assembled in a clean room" and all that, but the fluid is reasonably dirty when it comes out...

I do get your point about knocking stuff into the transmission, which is why I wouldn't trust a flat rate mechanic to do it-but if you're careful and work clean I definitely think it's better to change the fluid than not.

One thing to note: CVT fluid volume, at least the stuff in my FS, is very sensitive to temps. I've never seen a fluid expand so much due to heat. So, you have to be very careful when measuring. I drain it hot, let it cool to room temp, measure--then add the amount back in. And then I check the level (FS has a dipstick, not sure about the Subie).

As far as the cost of the CVT's long-term, these trans seem super-reliable. As a result, low-mileage units from a wrecker look cheap. If a trans went sideways I doubt that it would end up costing much more than a clutch job (which isn't cheap on these cars). So, I wouldn't let the high cost of a new dealer-installed transmission dissuade one from buying the car.