Crazy Ivan - Russian 6 vs 2 F-22's 55 miles Alaska

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Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
To hear the MiG-31 being described as a 'fighter jet' gives me heartburn. It is a high-powered interceptor. It is designed to launch heavy long range, high-speed cruise missiles. It can fly at speeds far faster and at altitudes far higher than any current fighter jet.
Thats correct, straight line performance, intercepting bombers, and the last thing it wants to do is turn or get into a dogfight thousands of miles from home. SU-27 family presents a little bit more of a challenge.
 
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We have always had folks who trumpet that Soviet hardware as "dangerously equivalent" to ours. Yet when we come up against it directly we roll over it like a steamroller. I have great confidence that our latest would easily defeat anything they can throw at us. And our PILOTS are the best trained in the world by far. The sad fact is we are directed by rank amateurs, whose lack of experience is rather obvious after their years of practice...
Actually...I would say that might be the Israelis.
 
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We have always had folks who trumpet that Soviet hardware as "dangerously equivalent" to ours. Yet when we come up against it directly we roll over it like a steamroller. I have great confidence that our latest would easily defeat anything they can throw at us. And our PILOTS are the best trained in the world by far. The sad fact is we are directed by rank amateurs, whose lack of experience is rather obvious after their years of practice...
Ask a US jet fighter pilot how he feels about actually being in the seat and facing off against that MiG. He wouldn't like it, regardless of the odds being in his favor. In an ambush scenario, our rules of engagement probably limit what we could do before the MiG gets its shots off. The MiG could then turn tail and quickly outrun the fighter. This happened in Iraq with a MiG-25 (the 31's predecessor) during Desert Storm.
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
In another incident, an Iraqi MiG-25PD, after eluding eight USAF F-15s at long range, fired three missiles at General Dynamics EF-111A Raven electronic warfare aircraft, forcing them to abort their mission and leave attacking aircraft without electronic jamming support.[N 1][43] In yet another incident, two MiG-25s approached a pair of F-15s, fired missiles at long range (which were evaded by the F-15s), and then outran the American fighters. Two more F-15s joined the pursuit, and a total of 10 air-to-air missiles were fired at the MiG-25s, although none reached them.[44] According to the same sources, at least one F-111 was also forced to abort its mission by a MiG-25 on the first 24 hours of hostilities, during an air raid over Tikrit.[45]
Ask a bomber or AWACS (the MiG's intended audience) pilot about facing off against that MiG, and he would not like it at all, no sir.
 
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Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We have always had folks who trumpet that Soviet hardware as "dangerously equivalent" to ours. Yet when we come up against it directly we roll over it like a steamroller. I have great confidence that our latest would easily defeat anything they can throw at us. And our PILOTS are the best trained in the world by far. The sad fact is we are directed by rank amateurs, whose lack of experience is rather obvious after their years of practice...
Ask a US jet fighter pilot how he feels about actually being in the seat and facing off against that MiG. He wouldn't like it, regardless of the odds being in his favor. In an ambush scenario, our rules of engagement probably limit what we could do before the MiG gets its shots off. The MiG could then turn tail and quickly outrun the fighter. This happened in Iraq with a MiG-25 (the 31's predecessor) during Desert Storm.
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
In another incident, an Iraqi MiG-25PD, after eluding eight USAF F-15s at long range, fired three missiles at General Dynamics EF-111A Raven electronic warfare aircraft, forcing them to abort their mission and leave attacking aircraft without electronic jamming support.[N 1][43] In yet another incident, two MiG-25s approached a pair of F-15s, fired missiles at long range (which were evaded by the F-15s), and then outran the American fighters. Two more F-15s joined the pursuit, and a total of 10 air-to-air missiles were fired at the MiG-25s, although none reached them.[44] According to the same sources, at least one F-111 was also forced to abort its mission by a MiG-25 on the first 24 hours of hostilities, during an air raid over Tikrit.[45]
Ask a bomber or AWACS (the MiG's intended audience) pilot about facing off against that MiG, and he would not like it at all, no sir.
Thats why i think we need an upgraded f-14. The Aim 54 had a 100 mile range, and the f-14's radar was very powerful. With the Bears still in service a long range interceptor would be good to have, you can see russia is still using theirs( mig 31).
 
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Russia is not a problem for the US or the free world and realistically never has been. If anything we will be fighting with them (again) not against them when these bomb tossers get out of control and need to wiped of the face of the earth or against the Chicoms. All this is just sabre rattling nothing more. They are a nuclear super power and assured mutual destruction is a very real deterrent. The real enemy of the US IMHO is right here in the US and likes to play golf while the middle east burns and people are getting their head cut off.
 

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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The Russians have their own stealth fighter. The YF22 is no match for it.
A prototype is a far cry from an operational airplane. This airplane has potential, but it's no match for the F-22 as it hasn't yet flown with weapons, or demonstrated systems integration.
 

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Most fighter pilots would not shy away from the confrontation. We train for it all the time. And, yes, despite cuts in flying hours and training, US pilots are still the World's best trained. The US and Coalition shot down 38 Iraqi airplanes during Desert Storm. If you accept the Wikipedia story that LCDR Scott Speicher was shot down by an Iraqi MiG-25, which is still not the recognized or accepted version of events, then the kill ratio was 38:1 when the MiGs used ambush tactics. 38:1 Against F-14/F-15/F-16/F-18 4th generation fighters. I would not want to be a MiG pilot facing a 5th generation US stealth fighter - the F-22....
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would not want to be a MiG pilot facing a 5th generation US stealth fighter - the F-22....
Would you be happy to square off in your Astro against a Foxhound? No, nobody in the world would want to face an F-22. That airplane is next-level stuff. But the F-22 is not the backbone of our fighting force. And our experiences against lousy pilots in monkey model MiGs can give a lopsided view of the situation - like how we stomped the Iraqi T-72s flat with our Abrams and M60 tanks. But it all does boil down to one thing - the pilot. And Russian pilots haven't had the advantage of training and actual theater warfare experience like American pilots. And that's their biggest disadvantage.
 

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Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would not want to be a MiG pilot facing a 5th generation US stealth fighter - the F-22....
Would you be happy to square off in your Astro against a Foxhound? No, nobody in the world would want to face an F-22. That airplane is next-level stuff. But the F-22 is not the backbone of our fighting force. And our experiences against lousy pilots in monkey model MiGs can give a lopsided view of the situation - like how we stomped the Iraqi T-72s flat with our Abrams and M60 tanks.
I don't understand your question above... "Astro" refers to my callsign. I am a Navy fighter pilot. I did square off against MiGs, but that was many years ago and they ran as soon as they knew we were in the air. Would I square off again in a navy fighter? Absolutely. I don't have a lop-sided view...I am well aware of the threat capabilities...there are some formidable platforms out there, but the point of this thread was the provocation of MiG-31s and Bears that were intercepted by F-22s...so, the F-22 does represent our air defense capability in Alaska...and it was based there for precisely that reason.
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would not want to be a MiG pilot facing a 5th generation US stealth fighter - the F-22....
Would you be happy to square off in your Astro against a Foxhound? No, nobody in the world would want to face an F-22. That airplane is next-level stuff. But the F-22 is not the backbone of our fighting force. And our experiences against lousy pilots in monkey model MiGs can give a lopsided view of the situation - like how we stomped the Iraqi T-72s flat with our Abrams and M60 tanks.
I don't understand your question above... "Astro" refers to my callsign. I am a Navy fighter pilot. I did square off against MiGs, but that was many years ago and they ran as soon as they knew we were in the air. Would I square off again in a navy fighter? Absolutely. I don't have a lop-sided view...I am well aware of the threat capabilities...there are some formidable platforms out there, but the point of this thread was the provocation of MiG-31s and Bears that were intercepted by F-22s...so, the F-22 does represent our air defense capability in Alaska...and it was based there for precisely that reason.
I thought that Astro was a designation for the F-14. My mistake. And the platform was retired a while ago, I am aware of that. Anyway, good posts and I appreciate your input. I suppose that I am overestimating the Russian threat. As a frontline fighter the F-22 where deployed gives us a huge advantage.
 

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Never underestimate the threat...I never would...and be very, very careful to understand and respect their capability...it's a challenge not to overestimate them either... The F-14 was the "Tomcat"...and I still miss that jet...
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
The F-14 was the "Tomcat"...and I still miss that jet...
So you've never heard of the F-14 being referred to as an Astro? Maybe that was just internal code at the time for an enemy F-14 (one belonging to the IRIAF) http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/International_security_affairs/other/172.pdf
Originally Posted By: page 64 of PDF, 48 of report
'TN N 4131 reported as "Astro" (F-14) over AAW C&R/DSA net by TIC. (IO Exhibit 203).
 
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The kill ratio during the Korean air war with the main American fighter jet, the F86 Sabre vs the main fighter jet of N. Korea the mig 15 with an assortment of pilots from the USSR, China, and S Korea was 4 to 1 in favor of the Americans. Sixty years later I feel that the technology, equipment and training has kept the Americans ahead of the Russians. As said, the Israelis probably know more about our fighter planes than we do.
 
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People here who are scared of the Russian military might, ought to remember that the Soviet Union went bankrupt trying to match our military, and never made it. They do not have the global network to use their aircraft anywhere near as effectively as our own. If we were all flying the same planes, they would lose just off of that alone. Also a larger issue is that Russia has few friends. If Russia starts a problem and it comes to fire, just about nobody is jumping in. If Russia gets to frisky, just about all of Europe is going to want to send them back where they came from. They remember what it was like to have the Russians waiting with itchy trigger fingers on the other side of the wall. Putin is a big sabre rattler who uses his military "power" to partially invade Eastern European ghettos. He'd have diarrhea for weeks if he ever had to face off against a nation with any real power.
 

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Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The F-14 was the "Tomcat"...and I still miss that jet...
So you've never heard of the F-14 being referred to as an Astro? Maybe that was just internal code at the time for an enemy F-14 (one belonging to the IRIAF) http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/International_security_affairs/other/172.pdf
Originally Posted By: page 64 of PDF, 48 of report
'TN N 4131 reported as "Astro" (F-14) over AAW C&R/DSA net by TIC. (IO Exhibit 203).
Exactly - an internal call word, one that changes periodically (often daily) in a particular theater of operation....not an enduring code word or an enduring nickname for the airplane. The next day, a different word might denote a hostile F-14... I am amused that my callsign was used as a code word to denote my airplane on that day...but that was a day of tragedy...so, my amusement is constrained by the loss of life.
 
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The Russians have their own stealth fighter. The YF22 is no match for it.
Vaporware. Also its a 5th gen so unless you are prevy to top secret Russian and US electronic technology you have no basis for that statement.
 
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This is just typical cold war stuff, move along really nothing new here. The only thing interesting about it is how far we have come since the cold war in terms of technology and how the Russian air force has essentially stood still. They are literally using museum pieces and were intercepting them with the most advanced fighter in the world. 3rd gen vs 5th gen. The last thing I heard about the Russian vapor ware mig is it might be in service around the same time the Chinese copy of the F23 takes off, 2020-25 time frame realistically. Its amazing how far the US Air Force is ahead of them, by than fighters will be obsolete, were already working on un manned drones.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
The real enemy of the US IMHO is right here in the US and likes to play golf while the middle east burns and people are getting their head cut off.
This hit's the nail on the head.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
The real enemy of the US IMHO is right here in the US and likes to play golf or rest at his ranch and has for the last 14 years while the middle east burns and people are getting their head cut off.
Fixed for accuracy...the US hasn't had a strong policy regarding that area since someone's Dad left office....
 
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