Could re-refined base stocks be as good or better?

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Check this out: http://www.ac-rerefined.com/Americas_Choice_Passenge_Car_Motor_Oilsb_SL_02.PDF http://www.ac-rerefined.com/html/endorsements.html Looks like these oils are on the "thicker" end of the spectrum. Could re-refined base stocks be better than virgin, since the less stable molecules are already weeded out? Since they get the same refining as oil out of the ground, wouldn't as much of the "schmutz" be removed as in virgin oil? I'd like more info about America's Choice's additive package, but these re-refined oils might be an intelligent choice for dino-oil applications. Apparently re-refined oil requires a lot less oil and energy to produce. What do you think? Would it be worth it (environmentally / oil dependency-wise) if I could get 150-180K miles / 12 years out of the car? Do you think that longevity would be doable with 5K mile / 6 month oil changes using this stuff? I've already bought the Pennzoil for my next changes in both cars, but maybe in the interest of science, if people care I could do a VOA and then UOA using this AC rerefined stuff early next year (if I can find it). Matt
 

Matt89

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Dr T - Thanks for your consideration and thorough justification for your viewpoint. BTW, everything is recycled, including the air you breathe and the water you drink. Try saying "no thanks" to them. J - Where does the word "synthetic" appear in my post? If anyone wants to apply some brain power to the questions please reply.
 
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Here is some data from Evergreen. As a Group I+ oil, it meets the test criteria for base and can be successfully be used in fully formulated motor oils. The challenge is getting past the stigma of "re-refined" oils. Thus far, only municipal and state governments appear to be willing to use these products. There aren't too many "green" gearheads (or motorists in general) thus far.
 
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As a chemist, I understand the difficulty of separating saturated hydrocarbons from the unsaturated ones that will polymerize into sludge and varnish. I also know that letting them sludge out in their first life could leave the the oil cleaner in the second. On the other hand what sort of crap forms from shear thinning of the oil? Can we count on all it being enough lower molecular weight that it is distilled off in the second refining? Remember, crude oil starts out with a lot of crap in it. In your second link, the big 3 are saying it can be done right, but be careful. With Pennzoil up to about $1.40, how do I find a reliable source for a quality rerefined oil? A good one should be better for my wallet, the enviroment, our economy, and as good or better for my car. Who can I trust? Pennzoil has gone from being owned by Quaker State to being owned by Shell. Union Carbide no longer sells Prestone. Purolator is a courier company. I think the filters are sold by some Davis company I never heard of. Many of us here do not trust Fram any more. As a consumer, I have been burned by cheap junk. I have also been burned by paying a big price for highly advertised junk. How do we know?
 
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I like the theory of recycled oils but I have one concern, what did they start with? If they started with used oil from various service stations, repair facilities, etc. I would expect to find ATF in the used oil and would not be surprized to find power steering fluid, brake fluid, maybe some antifreeze too. Who knows what got dumped into the bowser? There is even the possibility of solvents, paint thinner, etc. With these unknowns, I would be leary of recycled oil.
 
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Long as we're basing our views on that most scientific of analytical procedures - "Kentucky Windage" - here's some from me: I would think a LOT would depend on the means by which the recycled oil is re-refined. If it's treated with filtration and/or centrifuging and solvent wax extraction and mild hydro-finishing, I doubt that the resulting base stock would be any better, if as good, than the cheapest virgin Group-I base stock. Maybe close, though. However it was then subjected to severe pressure-heat-hydrogen-catalyst isomerization, I see no reason the resulting reformed and saturated product couldn't be legitimately classed as a Group-II or Group-III base stock (depending on the processing severity). The key is whether going to this expense currently is cost effective. But it could eventually well be if world political events result in a sharp, sustained rise in crude oil prices. [ May 05, 2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
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In applying a little brain power to the question, I see that the specifications look to be about the same for the average dino oil. Would I drive it 5k and/or 6 months? No. 3k max, and then only with analysis, and I'd be thinking "sludge sludge sludge" the whole time.
 
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I can't see using re-refined motor oil, at least in a newer or expensive vehicle. You can buy conventional motor oil for a buck and change per quart (less if you can find a sale). One of the top rated conventional oils at this site seems to be Chevron, and the last time I bought it I was able to get it for .99 cents a quart. Even Schaeffer's part synthetic oil is about 3 bucks a quart, although you have to pay for shipping, of course. How much money are you saving by used re-refined oil? I have never bought re-refined oil but it surely costs something like 60-70-80-90 cents a quart. Which are you going to buy? The re-refined oil at maybe something like 80 cents a quart or Chevron on sale for 99 cents a quart? We are talking pennies.
 

Jay

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Idaho Falls, ID
I wonder if anything is being saved with re-refined oil. So many recycled products are made solely to satisfy the sensibilities of environmental religionists and make no economic or even environmental sense. Examples include recycled paper which is more expensive than non-recycled, recycled PVC--again more expensive than virgin, and "renewable" fuels like ethanol that use more petroleum to produce than they replace. Do re-refined oils fall into this category?
 
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Nothern USA
quote:
Originally posted by Rick in PA: I like the theory of recycled oils but I have one concern, what did they start with? If they started with used oil from various service stations, repair facilities, etc. I would expect to find ATF in the used oil and would not be surprized to find power steering fluid, brake fluid, maybe some antifreeze too. Who knows what got dumped into the bowser? There is even the possibility of solvents, paint thinner, etc. With these unknowns, I would be leary of recycled oil.
AFT, power steering fluid, paint thinner, gasoline, etc. all come out of the same crude as lubricating oil. The base oil in all of them is about the same except the molecular weight. Distillation easily separates them out. Different chemical compositions is tougher, but stuff like antifreeze and brake fluid are fairly easy to remove. So as I said in my first post, the original crude is just that, crude. What is tough is separating out unsaturated stuff and branched stuff with tertiary hydrogens that can react. The stuff out of Q-Lube's pit may be better base than what we buy from the Arabs. The hard to remove stuff has already turned to varnish, sludge, and acid in somebody else's engine. Jay makes a good point. It can take a tremendous amount of energy to gather stuff up, separate it, haul it to a processing plant, and reprocess it. Glass may recycle, but the environment might be better off using paper and plastic and sending it to the nearest waste to energy plant along with the used oil.
 

J

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Berkeley
Hi, Recycled oil is not better than synthetic oil. Not by a long shot. Don't try to skimp on oil. You might not like the results. [crushedcar] [Cheers!] Jae
 
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Washington St.
quote:
Originally posted by labman: ..... Pennzoil has gone from being owned by Quaker State to being owned by Shell. Union Carbide no longer sells Prestone. Purolator is a courier company. I think the filters are sold by some Davis company I never heard of. .....
I think it was Pennzoil that bought Quaker St. a few years back, and as you say, Royal Dutch/Shell now owns Pennzoil-Quaker St. Corp. Purolator Courier is a different company, as is Purolator-Facet Filter Co. (owned by Clarcor, the owners of Baldwin & Hastings Filter Co.). Purolator car filters is owned by ArvinMeritor Corp., a major maker of parts for auto assembly plants and aftermarket parts http://www.arvinmeritor.com/products/default.asp Ken
 
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