Could Hyundai-Kia overtake Honda & Toyota?

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They're going to based on features and price. Considering how most of the US population could care less about how a car does car functions, if it goes/stops/turns it's good enough for them. But if it doesn't have BluesynconMMC-link so we can check our social media outlets all at once while on the phone while reading our text messages while chomping a Big Mac, they're not going to buy it.

Hyundai has positioned itself as offering beige boxes at a lower price than the competition with all of the features, and some innovation every once in a while. So they'll get the sales, until somebody else comes along to be a Hyundai of 10 years ago to the Hyundai of today.
 
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: Spazdog


With Toyota, the lineup is a little better matched but as we've seen with the Sonata and the Camry, Toyota is definitely in Hyundai's sights. The Equus went straight for the Lexus LS460. And in some ways, they succeeded in besting the Japanese luxury king. The valet isn't going to park your Equus in a prominent spot like he would a LS460L, after all, it is just a Hyundai. But you get a car that is as quiet, as smooth, as luxurious...as everything for less than a base LS460. And that's just what Lexus did to Mercedes Benz with the first LS400 over 2 decades ago.

Respectfully, I disagree about the LS400 comparison.
The LS400, when introduced in '89, absolutely TROUNCED the luxury car establishment by introducing a car that set new standards for quality, performance, refinement and smoothness. The fact that it was a lot cheaper than the Mercedes/BMW/Jaguars of the day helped propel the model into a brand that is now at the head table with all of the prestige manufacturers.

The Equus is merely a "me-too" design, that does not innovate - it just merely attempts to replicate and reverse-engineer technology to a lower price point. What it succeeds at is being a superb town-car along the lines of the Ford Panther platform vehicles.


ooohhh, dangerous territory.
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There are still staunch defenders of the Mercedes Benz 500SEL and the V12 BMW750iL....nevermind the fact that IMO, the Lexus sent BMW back to the drawing board for thier own 4.0 V8 a couple of years after the LS400. To a much greater degree than the Infiniti Q45 did.

To me, the Equus is more of a carbon-copy of the LS460L. I agree, it lacks innovation, but it does nail the price point.
 
Just this week, I passed over Honda & Toyota (have owned both in past years) and bought a 2012 Hyundai Veloster...a fresh, stylish, well-assembled, tech-loaded, fun-to-drive car the gives 38-40 mpg for under under $23,000.
 
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The LS400, when introduced in '89, absolutely TROUNCED the luxury car establishment by introducing a car that set new standards for quality, performance, refinement and smoothness. The fact that it was a lot cheaper than the Mercedes/BMW/Jaguars of the day helped propel the model into a brand that is now at the head table with all of the prestige manufacturers.


They maybe at the same table but i think they are the ones hired to do the catering.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
The LS400, when introduced in '89, absolutely TROUNCED the luxury car establishment by introducing a car that set new standards for quality, performance, refinement and smoothness. The fact that it was a lot cheaper than the Mercedes/BMW/Jaguars of the day helped propel the model into a brand that is now at the head table with all of the prestige manufacturers.


They maybe at the same table but i think they are the ones hired to do the catering.



BAH HAHHAHAHAHAHA
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Hyundai/Kia has definitely developed the knack of being able to market a product that people want.

They can also quickly change up their product line. Every 2yrs something is "redesigned".

Having had some real-world Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi (and all the domestics) ownership experience, the components I had to replace on my 2008 model year Hyundai tells me they've got lots of room for improvement.

Regardless, I did enjoy my Hyundai Santa Fe.

Joel
 
Originally Posted By: Trav


They maybe at the same table but i think they are the ones hired to do the catering.



Agreed, at least here in fly over country. If you have the means to buy a luxury car, just get the real thing and be done with it. Why buy an overpriced Toyota?

China manipulates their currency the same way the Japanese did, and their car companies are more likely to put Honda and Nissan out of business than Hyundai. GM is already tight with them, and one of the companies now has Volvo and all that intellectual property.

Tata has Jaguar and Land Rover now and all that intellectual property. Aston Martin and Jaguar were Ford's crown jewels.

It will be interesting days ahead.
 
Its the quality of the secondary parts -literally the nuts and bolts- That always set my honda motorcycles (Sportbikes, Race) apart from the cheaper Kawasaki, Yamaha -
They all could build a sport bike that is fast- has a motor with rings that hold up...
But consistently, the Hondas secondary parts were superb.

I think -at least in the 80s and 90s Honda carried that philosophy over to their cars as well. (I have not purchased a newer Honda and I choose NOT to comment based on hear say)

As far as a quality drop - I would be curious to actually see NUMBERS and percentages. -Are there more people actually complaining about their Hondas OR has the internet simply made the squeaky wheels much louder ?!

Go to a restaurant and have a great dining experience and you might tell one or two people. Go to a restaurant and have a BAD experience and you will tell everyone you know. (and then write an internet review about it)
 
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"Could Hyundai-Kia overtake Honda & Toyota"

..I actually hope they do. Then Honda and Toyota and everyone else who didn't give them credit will step up their game...then the consumer get a better product. As long as the consumer gets a better product competition is healthy driver.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
They're going to based on features and price. Considering how most of the US population could care less about how a car does car functions, if it goes/stops/turns it's good enough for them. But if it doesn't have BluesynconMMC-link so we can check our social media outlets all at once while on the phone while reading our text messages while chomping a Big Mac, they're not going to buy it.

Hyundai has positioned itself as offering beige boxes at a lower price than the competition with all of the features, and some innovation every once in a while. So they'll get the sales, until somebody else comes along to be a Hyundai of 10 years ago to the Hyundai of today.


I agree with this very much!
 
Some great observations in this thread.

I see no real content in the Hyundais I drive. All about the toys with sub par dynamics.

The masses will not care - see sciphi for the perfect quote.
 
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Honda and Toyota have been spanked badly this year.I think their heyday is over.Everything comes in cycles,and they have been on top for too long (since the 80s) for it to last forever.Especially with them cheapening product as badly as they have been,and suffering recalls because of it. KIA and Hyundai dont impress me either though.I saw a 4-5 year old KIA SUV recently and it had a large rust hole thru the rear door.The question is not how KIA/Hyundai is made today,its how it holds up tomorrow....


Bingo. For my money I would still by a Civic over the korean equivalent. Honda has been around a l-o-n-g time, has a race heritage and a bullet-proof motorcycle record.


This for me as well.
No regrets yet, my Civic runs and drives great with no issues.
Also resale value is stellar for Honda.
I feel Toyota is way behind.
I recently drove a new Corolla and am literally amazed someone would buy that over a Honda, it is just so bad.
 
Well Hyundai and Kia have the main thing they need, the backing of the media and the public who are enamored by cheaper, foreign and gadgets. As far asobjectively I think GM and Ford are the real vehicles to watch.
 
Originally Posted By: JTK
Hyundai/Kia has definitely developed the knack of being able to market a product that people want.





No, actually they just make a reasonably decent product and advertise the hel l out of it. Hyundai knows how gullible Americans are.

The new Veloster ad spot "Ready for Whatever" annoys the heck out of me, it really speaks down to the viewer. Patronizing in the worst way.
 
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Hyundai and Kia could displace Honda and Toyota because Hyundai and Kia have been offering more car per dollar. See anything else that offers as much per dollar as a 2.0T Sonata?

Also, the way I see it, when the Hyundai Genesis Coupe gets the Direct Injection 2.0T, it will attract people who used to simply restore a Nissan 240SX/Silvia.

One thing would really get my attention is if someone besides Mitsubishi and Subaru offered the USA a rally car.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Hyundai and Kia could displace Honda and Toyota because Hyundai and Kia have been offering more car per dollar. See anything else that offers as much per dollar as a 2.0T Sonata?

Also, the way I see it, when the Hyundai Genesis Coupe gets the Direct Injection 2.0T, it will attract people who used to simply restore a Nissan 240SX/Silvia.

One thing would really get my attention is if someone besides Mitsubishi and Subaru offered the USA a rally car.


Hyundai knows how to market, and how to design a good-looking interior. They did make some great cars in the past. Look at the Elantras and Accents that made good, cheap autocrossers for a lot of folks. They were durable and responded well to high-performance driving. Now, the current lineup looks sporty but has the handling of the Titanic. Well, save the Genesis Coupe, which in 3.8 guise is a good track rat.

Look at my comment above. Hyundai figured out that most of us Americans give a dog's doo-doo about how a car does its job. Apparently we care more about how "connected" we can be while we drive from one place to another place that looks suspiciously like the place we just left. We also want to appear "sporty" while doing nothing of the sort. So, it's perfect for a marketing-driven company like Hyundai. Sell sporty-looking cars with lots of infotainment goodies at a price lower than the competition. Cha-ching!

I agree, watch for the Detroit Three to make a comeback. GM "accidentally" made one of the sportiest small sedans on the market with the Cruze Eco (c'mon, lightened, turbocharged and stick-shift makes a car the "eco" variant?), Ford has a new Focus that is a critic's darling, and Chrysler is finally making cars that sell without 1/3 MSRP discounts, along with great vehicles like the new JGC.

With the Toyota recalls, the new Civic not being recommended by the Sheeple's Reports, and a lot of new metal from Detroit, it's an interesting time in the auto industry right now. A company like Hyundai with a great marketing division and a good-enough product that's marketable to a lot of folks will make headway. There's a reason the ancient Chinese thought "May you have interesting times" was a curse!
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
artificialist said:
will make headway. There's a reason the ancient Chinese thought "May you have interesting times" was a curse!


I think I saw that on my fortune cookie.

Agree with the big three and domestics - I was pleasantly surprised by the Focus when I had it as a rental a few months back. I even liked the Cruze. -This is coming from someone who almost NEVER buys domestic.
 
I actually equate Apple with Hyundai....

Perhaps Hyundai studied Apple's approach to marketing.

Take a generally pedestrian product, make it LOOK a bit snazzier than the competition, (keeping the same ordinary guts inside) and market it to the trendies and hipsters and whatever you do keep calling it "cool" in your press releases .....and pay the press to write about you all the time. You know payola, it still goes on especially in the computer/smart phone business AND the car business.

I always get a laugh when posting in many car forums like vwvortex in various hyundai threads ....the question that always gets me banned or ridiculed????

"How does the (Hyundai/Kia model) handle and drive compared to the competition?"

The reason they don't want to address this ...is because those cars DON'T measure up in the handling, driving dynamics, driver controls departments compared to their competitors. And the paid Hyundai/Kia PR crowd on those sites KNOWS it.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
...Look at my comment above. Hyundai figured out that most of us Americans give a dog's doo-doo about how a car does its job. Apparently we care more about how "connected" we can be while we drive from one place to another place that looks suspiciously like the place we just left. We also want to appear "sporty" while doing nothing of the sort. So, it's perfect for a marketing-driven company like Hyundai. Sell sporty-looking cars with lots of infotainment goodies at a price lower than the competition. Cha-ching!



Spot on
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