Cost analysis of dino vs mobil 1 over 400k miles?

wulimaster · Feb 19, 2003

I recently read a cost analysis on one of the boards I frequent but now I am unable to find it again. Perhaps it was here.

It was about a guy from Texas who owned a business that had 8 Ford 4x4s which he had equiped 4 with full synthetics from mobil in the engine and tranny and the other 4 with dino.

The vehicles had about 425k miles each when he sold the company.

The results were the best advertising I could have ever seen for the use of synthetics.

It really illustrated the price-vs-cost differences.

Al · Feb 19, 2003

With that low number of vehicles-statistically the information would not be that reliable ( if repairs were factored in the equation). But if you look at the cost of the oil vs the expense to change the fluids than that could be useful. Unfortunately you can't produce the results so this information isn,t very helpful to me.

dragboat · Feb 19, 2003

wulimaster,

With single quart pricing edging towards the 2 dollar mark now more than ever the 4 buck a quart real synlubes makes sense unless the motor is on it's way South,it is a carbed motor that gasses up the oil and or the owner just really enjoys being under the car often

All or mostly hi-way with a couple of the better dino's available might be a different story because some might run out to 7500 in a good motor? No-one does this to confirm though.At least not members of this forum using analysis to verify that I have seen to date.

Many ways to get a job done,,oil as a hobby is a

thing

wulimaster · Feb 20, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Al:
With that low number of vehicles-statistically the information would not be that reliable ( if repairs were factored in the equation). But if you look at the cost of the oil vs the expense to change the fluids than that could be useful. Unfortunately you can't produce the results so this information isn,t very helpful to me.

Al,

I was really hoping that this was the board that had the posting.

Here is a quick summary of the results of the posting I was looking for.

DINO OIL results for the 4 vehicles.

At abuot 225k miles
4 rebuilt engines at ~$3000 each (vehicles were burning too much oil (about 2.5qts per 3k miles and would not pass emmisions)

4 transmissions at about the same mileage ~$1,700 each

3% less fuel economy with the dino

Less cost for the Mobil 1 because of 5k oil changes verses 3k for dino and because of excessive oil consumption on the dino. Also less oil filters used.

At about 425k miles and 7 years the testing ended when the company was sold. Here is the summary for the Mobil 1 and synthetic atf by 425K miles.

1 new torque converter at about $300.

All 4 vehicle were still passing emmissions and fuel economy was still consistantly better. See above 3%

I believe the dino oil was GTX.

The cost of using dino over the Mobil 1 was about $5,000 per vehicle over 425k miles, but if the 1st 225k miles were any indication then the engines and transmissions were probably about 25k miles from needing to be replaced again. That would make the cost about $10,000 per vehicle over 450k miles.

If I can relocate the posting I will cut and repost here.

Mike

Malibu · Feb 20, 2003

Here's a story about a 1995 pickup that went 1,000,000 miles without an engine overhaul using dino oil changed every 3,000 miles.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=105&STORY=/www/story/08-29-2001/0001562942

The owner of this 1,000,000 mile pickup could probably never be talked into the extended oil change with oil analysis philosophy that is promoted here. And I wouldn't blame him.

Al · Feb 20, 2003

Mike: Thanks for posting the follow-up information. Even though like I said my Statistic Professor would indicate that its reliability would not be high-it sounds awful good to me

.

Malibu- I have seen this before. Even though it seems awful authentic. I have doubts about the whole thing. I must be from Missouri.

wulimaster · Feb 20, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Malibu:
Here's a story about a 1995 pickup that went 1,000,000 miles without an engine overhaul using dino oil changed every 3,000 miles.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=105&STORY=/www/story/08-29-2001/0001562942

The owner of this 1,000,000 mile pickup could probably never be talked into the extended oil change with oil analysis philosophy that is promoted here. And I wouldn't blame him.

I wonder what became of the analysis of the engine? It has been almost 2 years since this was published.

There was no mention of what service had been done to the truck? This implies that the trucks engine had never been opened up.

The way this guy was racking up mileage, he probably could have gone the million miles on Amsoil with a bypass filter and just topped off. Probably would have only used 85 quarts instead of 1600+.

He left 333 oil filters in a landfill somewhere along with the residual oil in each. That means 16 times more oil reclaimation trucks needed to haul that oil back to the refinery.

I guess creating more jobs, more pollution, and more waste could be considered a good thing. Just not in my book.

Mike

Mike

Malibu · Feb 20, 2003

> he probably could have gone the million miles on Amsoil
> with a bypass filter and just topped off.
> Probably would have only used 85 quarts instead of 1600+.

Probably, probably - all theory without alot of supporting case history
evidence. By contrast, monster mileage stories
involving highway driven, 3000 - 5000 mile dino oil changed
car trucks are fairly routine.

If the extended synthetic drain with oil analysis philosophy was
cost effective, I would expect more fleet operators would
embrace it. But from what I have read in fleet trucking
magazines, only a small fraction of operators are using
synthetic engine oils. Instead they are using dino oils with
oil analysis.

wulimaster · Feb 20, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Malibu:

If the extended synthetic drain with oil analysis philosophy was
cost effective, I would expect more fleet operators would
embrace it. But from what I have read in fleet trucking
magazines, only a small fraction of operators are using
synthetic engine oils. Instead they are using dino oils with
oil analysis. [/QB]

Extended oil drain oils from the big companies are relatively new. Penzoil and Valvoline only recently came out with extended drain synthetics within the last year and Mobil hasn't had it's Delvac 1 out that long either. That small percentage you are talking about is probably 90% Amsoil users.

Even in Europe extended drains are relatively new for Fleet and over the road vehicles.

Want to bet that the percentage is 50-50 in 5 years?

Actually, a lot of the trucks consume about 1 qt per 1000 miles and as such replenish the entire sump in about 40,000 miles. In tighter engines it does pay for itself.

blano · Feb 20, 2003

quote:

Mobil hasn't had it's Delvac 1 out that long either

Hasnt Delvac 1 been out since the late seventies-early eighhties?

Malibu · Feb 20, 2003

Yes, blano, Delvac 1 has been around since well back in the 80's. I remember in 1992 Fleet Trucking magazine did a major survey of synthetic vs dino oil use among fleets.

Spector · Feb 20, 2003

The million mile truck. We never did see the results of the tear down and the comparison to original specs on that engine. Also, no mention of oil consumption during the 4 days between oil changes and why oh why did he give it up. Was it strictly to get a new truck from Pennzoil or was it running like a piece of crap and he just kept it going to get to one million and trade it off for marketing rights

I must be from Missouri also.

dickwells · Feb 20, 2003

Lets face it, That truck only had 4 cold starts between oil changes, and it was down south to boot. The oil was basically like new each time it was changed. I bet the light on my Silverado would have gone to its max, whatever that is, but at least 10K miles with this usage.

dragboat · Feb 20, 2003

I remember that story! If memory serves me correct it was found to be false as He$$.

I read the final news report on another forum quite some time ago so I can't say for sure.
I could be wrong but I do beleive the new truck was taken from him but don't carve it in stone based on my post.

3 Mad Ponchos · Feb 20, 2003

http://www.pennzoil-quakerstate.com/indx_pqs/about/products/pr2002-02-07.htm

http://guthriecenter.springbranchisd.com/newsletter/2002/March.PDF

http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/may02/departments/news_notes/news_note.html

It would seem that Pennzoil, at least, is still claiming the truck is authentic, and even has it on display in their lab in Texas. Couldn't find any independent verification though.

Cheers, 3MP

dragboat · Feb 20, 2003

Hmmmm. Is that why on the back of a bottle of the siver bottles of Pennzoil Synthetic is says something to the effect of to keep your engine in top condition remember to change your oil every 3 months or 3 K miles ?

Malibu · Feb 21, 2003

Toyota's website (toyota.com) also says the same thing
and rather emphatically:

Quote: "Even if synthetic oil is used we DO NOT recommend
a longer oil change interval."

Toy4x4 · Feb 21, 2003

If you read in between the lines of Toyota's statement, it means "We're going to cover our butts from a lawsuit". IMO

That covers it really well.

Patman · Feb 21, 2003

With that guy's driving he could've easily gone 6k or more between changes on dino. What a waste of time and money getting the oil changed every single week. If ever there was a candidate for a bypass filter with good synthetic, it was him. I bet he could've done ten oil changes this way, and gotten the same results.

cryptokid · Mar 12, 2003

i bet most engines would make it a million miles if the owner took good care of it.

i cant resist flogging the exhaust out of my cars :\

Cost analysis of dino vs mobil 1 over 400k miles?

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