Convince me not to add heat tape to a pipe in my garage

Joined
Sep 4, 2023
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499
Location
Houston, TX
Here is the situation. I live in Houston, TX in a 1968 home that has been re-piped with PEX. I have a detached garage which is attached to the house via a breezeway. In the breezeway, there is a 1/2 PEX line that goes from the attic, into the breezeway, into the open ceiling of the uninsulated garage and down to the a hosebib.

The pipe is insulated with foam insulation the entire way, and is encased in 1" PVC conduit through the breezeway (And I HOPE the insulation is in there too, no way to verify)

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My goal is have another Winter Storm Yuri with no worry of frozen pipes. I just want life to go on as normal. I do not know if this pipe froze in that storm.

There is no insulation in the garage, and no insulation in the breezeway. The pipe is TIGHT inside the conduit, and there is no way to add heat tape to the inside of the conduit, or even wrap it outside. I can fish other things through the breezeway, but they won't be touching this pipe.

My thinking is that if I add heat tape to the pipe in the garage, the fact its above freezing significantly in the attic, and in the garage, means it won't freeze through the 24ft run in the breezeway

What do you think?

I will always have power, so that is no concern.
 
What if you add a shutoff valve, back at the garage, a few feet before you feel there is a risk of freezing, and just shut off the outdoor hose bib during the winter, then open the hose bib and let the pipe drain between the shutoff and hose bib?

Or do you want to have water at the hose bib in the winter?
 
What if you add a shutoff valve, back at the garage, a few feet before you feel there is a risk of freezing, and just shut off the outdoor hose bib during the winter, then open the hose bib and let the pipe drain between the shutoff and hose bib?

Or do you want to have water at the hose bib in the winter?

I actually do have a shutoff, the problem is that the water never ever leave because there is no way for air to go in the pipe. So I will have to do some plumbing changes to get it to actually drain out

Second problem, the shutoff is now below 15 inches of new insulation (I knew this would happen, I want a solution better than shutting if off)

Ideally, I just want everything to "just work" in my house, I don't want to have to worry about draining pipes, shutting off valves etc. The heat tape will be automated based on outside temperature

My main worry is that it could still freeze in the breezeway, unsure if it will.
 
What if you add a shutoff valve, back at the garage, a few feet before you feel there is a risk of freezing, and just shut off the outdoor hose bib during the winter, then open the hose bib and let the pipe drain between the shutoff and hose bib?

Or do you want to have water at the hose bib in the winter?
^^ This is what is done in the North.
With one of these to allow air in, to drain the pipe.

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I actually do have a shutoff, the problem is that the water never ever leave because there is no way for air to go in the pipe. So I will have to do some plumbing changes to get it to actually drain out

Close the shutoff valve and open the hose bib. The vertical section will drain and the water that doesn't drain out of the horizontal section will freeze. It doesn't hurt PEX to freeze.
 
So here is the deal:

Pipes freeze not because of the cold, but because of a lack of heat. To understand this, is to understand your problem. Insulation, while providing a layer of protection, by increasing the time it will take for the pipe to freeze, and removing the effect of moving air, as it pertains to freezing, will not stop freezing. It is only a delaying factor.

The only way to stop pipe damage due to freezing is:

1.) Remove all water from the system
2.) Replace water in system with something that does not freeze solid, like RV antifreeze
3.) Introduce heat, such that the pipe stays above freezing temp.

If you can take a picture of your valve, and the surrounding area... I might have some suggestions for you that will prevent damage to the pipe.

But, you will not have a system that will work 100% of the time, without the addition of heat in some form or the other.

Is the roof of the breezeway insulated?
Is the entire length of the pipe accessable in the breezeway?
Is the pipe completely covered by this 15 inches of insulation
 
Is the roof of the breezeway insulated?
Is the entire length of the pipe accessable in the breezeway?
Is the pipe completely covered by this 15 inches of insulation

No, the roof is not insulated. Its a shingle asphalt roof

No, the entire length is not accessible

Inside the house, its covered with 15 inches of insulation, but once it exits the house and goes into the breezeway its not

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like adding heat tape to the garage section might be the best way forward without doing plumbing changes? There is actually quite a lot of pipe in the garage. Probably 45ft
 
My thinking is that if I add heat tape to the pipe in the garage, the fact its above freezing significantly in the attic, and in the garage, means it won't freeze through the 24ft run in the breezeway
This concept does not add up to me. Seems that arctic air blowing thru the breezeway will cause that section to freeze first regardless of warm water in the attic section.

The drip method works, if feasible for you.

Removing the water seems easiest, most failproof to me. Add either style pex ball valve with drain (shown above) somewhere VERY convenient to access. My choice would be to hook up some cheap air source to that valve and blow all the water out thru the hose bib (air compressor, battery tire pump, etc.). We blow water out of drip irrigation lines pre-winter in Michigan.

Still, it is not 100% failproof if nobody is there to drain the pipe.
 
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You can most likely easy remove that ball valve from the PEX line and replace it with a venting one as mentioned before. If you don't have the gear to create crimped PEX connections, SharkBite connectors are very reliable if the directions are followed. On the other hand tens of million home owners north of the Mason Dixon line get by just fine by leaving a faucet dripping on cold nights.


https://www.sharkbite.com/us/en/bra...ball-valves/max-ball-valve-drain-mounting-tab
 
Close the shutoff valve and open the hose bib. The vertical section will drain and the water that doesn't drain out of the horizontal section will freeze. It doesn't hurt PEX to freeze.
This is possible, but without the movement of air (vent) very little water will be removed from the system.
No, the roof is not insulated. Its a shingle asphalt roof

No, the entire length is not accessible

Inside the house, its covered with 15 inches of insulation, but once it exits the house and goes into the breezeway its not

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like adding heat tape to the garage section might be the best way forward without doing plumbing changes? There is actually quite a lot of pipe in the garage. Probably 45ft
Adding heat tape to that exposed area will do some heat transfer to the pipe in the breezeway, but will not likely do enough to stop it.

Realistically, how many days are going to be in the 20s? Not many.

Without access to 100% of the pipe, heat tape is a waste of time.

A valve with a drain combo would work, but a PITA, because of you insulation.

Again, take me a picture of this pipe where it is easiest to access, and i will show you what to do.

Unfortunately, in tou case, what you are asking for is not feasible.
 
That's fine, the hose bib will be empty and the PEX will freeze. No harm done to anything.
Well, the pipe freezing is not a problem at least with Pex B, it is the fitting. Pex A, it will fail 1000%where the pex is expanded on the fitting.

Of course, having 0 psi will help tremendously, but if it freezes in two spots, the place between will have very high pressure, and burst.

There is a fitting that would work, called a vacuum breaker, used on bottom feed water heaters, but in his situation it might not work to well.

need pictures
 
Your vertical portion of the pipe will drain. Air will get in. What happens when you're done with your shower? The water glugs out the tub faucet.

Freezing blows pipes through expansion. With the supply shut off and the garden hose spigot open, pressure will find its way out.

PEX is pretty good for not exploding when it freezes. I'd be a little concerned if there was an elbow where it transitions from horizontal to vertical but they could have just put a sweeping bend in it. (Ice chunks get shot into elbows then dam things up and cause failures that way.)

I have PEX in my off grid cabin that gets down to -20. I just open all the faucets and blow them down with compressed air when I close up in the fall. I'm sure there are low spots that collect a little water.

I would not let it drip, now you've got a skating rink outside!

How are you going to heat this heat tape during a power outage?

Off topic, is this breezeway something that gives a tax advantage? They're popular in some areas but look funny/ useless if all they do is give a little shade and a utility chase.
 
Thanks guys, I'll try dig up some pictures

Thankfully, the plumbers used very few fittings, there is no fitting in the garage other than where it connects to the hose bib. The next fitting is the ball valve under 15 inches of insulation

The other thing that may be in my favor is that the breezeway somewhat sealed. There is no rushing air in there. Also, I have 4 x recessed LED lights that do emit some heat on the back side, inside the breezeway. These are on dusk to dawn

Your vertical portion of the pipe will drain. Air will get in. What happens when you're done with your shower? The water glugs out the tub faucet.

Every time I've tried it, I get maybe 5 drops of water out, and that's all

Off topic, is this breezeway something that gives a tax advantage? They're popular in some areas but look funny/ useless if all they do is give a little shade and a utility chase.

No, but it carries this water line, my gas line, AT&T Fiber, my own personal fiber and 200a SER cable to my house. So its pretty useful :ROFLMAO:
 
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