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OneEyeJack · Jul 30, 2014

Why aren't move vehicles being converted to CNG? If the gas comes from America, is cheap, clean, burns cleaner can extend engine life and save the planet why is it not on more vehicles than buses, delivery trucks and the occasional pickup or conventional auto?

Chris142 · Jul 30, 2014

they have not figured out how to tax it yet! plus mpg would take a big hit.

SwedishRider · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

Why aren't move vehicles being converted to CNG? If the gas comes from America, is cheap, clean, burns cleaner can extend engine life and save the planet why is it not on more vehicles than buses, delivery trucks and the occasional pickup or conventional auto?

Simple. No widespread refueling infrastructure in place for passenger vehicles, and nobody willing to invest in a distribution system for an underutilized fuel.

Quattro Pete · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

Why aren't move vehicles being converted to CNG?

1. Because a CNG tank would eat away a large chunk of your cargo space. 2. Because gasoline in the US really still isn't expensive enough for most people to seriously consider alternatives. 3. Because CNG stations are very few, at least around here.

OneEyeJack · Jul 30, 2014

So, instead of a push to start the process with CNG we get the EPA mandating that we take corn from cows and pigs that has proven to be worse for the environment than burning gasoline.

mrsilv04 · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

So, instead of a push to start the process with CNG we get the EPA mandating that we take corn from cows and pigs that has proven to be worse for the environment than burning gasoline.

Pretty much...

SwedishRider · Jul 30, 2014

Refueling infrastructure is the missing component to any alternative fuel passenger vehicles. The only alternative fuel with a chance in that space is electric, largely because of Tesla's investment in the Superchargers, which allow for relatively quick refueling and are becoming more widespread. The jury is out... but it may actually work in the long run. CNG is limited to fleets that typically run local with a centrally located refueling station or two that are restricted in use to fleet vehicles only.

NateDN10 · Jul 30, 2014

It's also a big initial investment: 2014 Honda Civic sedan starts at $18,350 2014 Honda Civic sedan CNG starts at $26,650

edhackett · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

Why aren't move vehicles being converted to CNG?

1. Because a CNG tank would eat away a large chunk of your cargo space. 3. Because CNG stations are very few, at least around here.

Yup, I ran the math on this just a couple of weeks ago. CNG requires tanks 4X as large as gasoline to maintain the same driving range. Forget CNG filling stations. What about access to natural gas itself? NG is pretty much taken for granted by big city dwellers, but the fact is there are large areas of the US that do not have natural gas. A lot of people live a tank of fuel away from a town with NG.

OneEyeJack · Jul 30, 2014

With coal fired electricity generators being shut down electric vehicles won't work if there are a lot of them running around.

SwedishRider · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

With coal fired electricity generators being shut down electric vehicles won't work if there are a lot of them running around.

Not necessarily true. Many of Tesla's superchargers are being rolled out with solar canopies to offset grid electrical needs. As the technology improves, grid power needs would decrease. Many private homes can be outfitted with solar panels to offset electric car energy needs.

Quote:

Select stations utilize canopies covered with solar panels to offset energy use and provide shade. Over the next few years, we plan to cover more stations in sunny locales with solar canopies as part of our commitment to the environment.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

SteveSRT8 · Jul 30, 2014

^^^Please share with us how many of these are available? (Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)

earlyre · Jul 30, 2014

you'll see CNG more often in Fleets, as stated, and in diesel applications. I know locally, the Gas Company switched all their rigs over to CNG 15-20 years ago (IIRC) but that only makes sense.. more recently one of the 2 trash Haulers converted their trucks over to CNG. a few years back the County Board of Developmental Disablilaties got a big grant to replace their fleet of aging Tauri with CNG Ford E-Series Vans.

A_Harman · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: SwedishRider

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

With coal fired electricity generators being shut down electric vehicles won't work if there are a lot of them running around.

Not necessarily true. Many of Tesla's superchargers are being rolled out with solar canopies to offset grid electrical needs. As the technology improves, grid power needs would decrease. Many private homes can be outfitted with solar panels to offset electric car energy needs.

Quote:

Select stations utilize canopies covered with solar panels to offset energy use and provide shade. Over the next few years, we plan to cover more stations in sunny locales with solar canopies as part of our commitment to the environment.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

How much does recharging a Tesla battery at the rate of 120 KW affect its life expectancy? What a deal; recharge for 30 minutes, drive 170 miles. With a gasoline car, you can fill your gas tank in 5 minutes and drive 300 miles. Come back when you have a car that's better than what average people can buy for one-fourth the price, Elon.

SwedishRider · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

^^^Please share with us how many of these are available? (Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)

I never said they're currently available on every street corner. But Tesla has done a pretty good job rolling out the Superchargers nationwide in only a few years. They have single-handedly challenged gasoline as a realistic passenger fuel. If the Tesla Model III makes it to market at ~$35K and the Superchargers continue to roll out, it'll be a compelling alternative fuel vehicle offering. Consequently, I don't see CNG going anywhere beyond fleet use. As always, time will tell.

A_Harman · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

^^^Please share with us how many of these are available? (Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)

The Tesla website says 103 Supercharger stations are open. The Alternative Fuels Data Center website says there are 732 CNG stations across the country. And I bet it doesn't take 30 minutes to fill up at any one of them. Hmmmm.

SwedishRider · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

What a deal; recharge for 30 minutes, drive 170 miles.

Considering the electricity to repower the car at a Supercharger is free... it is a good deal. You can drive coast to coast for $0 in a Tesla. As more superchargers roll out, and models like the Model III are brought to market at a sub $40K price point, I'm game.

A_Harman · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: SwedishRider

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

What a deal; recharge for 30 minutes, drive 170 miles.

Considering the electricity to repower the car at a Supercharger is free... it is a good deal. You can drive coast to coast for $0 in a Tesla. As more superchargers roll out, and models like the Model III are brought to market at a sub $40K price point, I'm game.

Nothing is free. It's an introductory offer paid for by tax subsidies and emissions credits. When those run out, so does the free ride. They are in the "priming the pump" phase to create a market. We'll see if it's self-sustaining after the help from the Gummint ends.

SwedishRider · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

Originally Posted By: SwedishRider

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

What a deal; recharge for 30 minutes, drive 170 miles.

Considering the electricity to repower the car at a Supercharger is free... it is a good deal. You can drive coast to coast for $0 in a Tesla. As more superchargers roll out, and models like the Model III are brought to market at a sub $40K price point, I'm game.

Nothing is free. It's an introductory offer paid for by tax subsidies and emissions credits. When those run out, so does the free ride. They are in the "priming the pump" phase to create a market. We'll see if it's self-sustaining after the help from the Gummint ends.

You are correct, the debate boils down to this: will the Model III and the opening of Tesla's patents be enough to create a competitive marketplace for electric vehicles that is self-sustaining post-tax credits. The jury is out. My bet is on yes IF they actually bring a moderately priced vehicle to market. If the Model III drops and is a hit, expect the other manufacturers to take Tesla up on their open patent offer.

SwedishRider · Jul 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

^^^Please share with us how many of these are available? (Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)

The Tesla website says 103 Supercharger stations are open. The Alternative Fuels Data Center website says there are 732 CNG stations across the country. And I bet it doesn't take 30 minutes to fill up at any one of them. Hmmmm.

Not really a fair comparison. How many total electric charging stations including Superchargers in the USA? And how many CNG installations are in residential homes? Theoretically, just about every modern home could have a charging station installed.

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