Constant Stream of Rumors about Brand "C" Motor Oil.........

[Flimflam]

For months now, I have been baffled by the stream of rumors of Brand "C" GTZ dino motor oil. People keep saying, Brand "C" GTZ gunks up, forms deposits in, clogs up, and varnishes up engines, makes a mess of engine insides.

More often than not, I hang out in shops where engine tear-downs and overhauls are done. I can tell you that apart from cases where there has been an actual fire in the engine compartment, where the motor oil has actually caught fire, I have seen very, very few cases of gunking up, deposits, and/or varnishing. [of course, none of these guys left their oil in the engine for months, years....more of which to follow.....]

A post by Mystic in "Oil Filters," post date July 5, 2003, finally provides the explanation for all the bad rap suffered by Brand "C" GTZ motor oil.

I quote: "Years ago, I heard a lot of negative stuff about a certain brand of motor oil, which also happened to be a very popular brand. Some of the people who warned me......mechanics, who had seen...sludged up engines....what happened was, because the brand was so popular, the mechanics were bound to see a lot of sludged up engines. The mechanics asked the people....what brand of oil....using....added 2+2 and got 5. The problem.....not the oil.....probably poor maintenance. It merely seemed....sludged up engines [seemed to be] caused by that oil, because that oil was so popular."

Some people, one of my mechanics calls 'em "Farmer Johns,"[no slur intended on farmers in general] think the oil that came in the truck when bought new is good for the life of the truck. Of course, these individuals and their mechanics are going to get a shock when they get a look at the oil after a few years.

By contrast, some of the "boutique" oils are bound to get much less bad press than Brand "C" GTZ. I could home brew some sh*t motor oil, call it "Flimflam Hyper-Flow," and claim that it never gunks up engines. Which could well be true, but that is only because nobody would think of pouring it into their engine.

I just feel sorry for the fresh young automobile enthusiasts, those who have never hung out in workshops where the majority of customers use Brand "C" GTZ oil. They would never be able to distinguish the truth.....the truth being that if used according to manufacturer reccomendations, Brand "C" GTZ motor oil is the best product for ensuring longevity of engines. If I seem to be plugging brand "C," my apologies in advance. But truly, it deserves whatever plugs that comes its way. Outstanding service to the automotive public for 4 decades!!!!!!!

 

[Pablo]

Huh?

No one responded to you so I'll take a crack at old Castrol 20W-50 dino. Crap oil. Wouldn't hardly last 3000 miles in a hot burning car, yet it was advertised beyond heavily, as protecting any engine, in any conditions, any time. I mean this oil was thrust down our throats - well let me tell you I'm not a youngin' anymore and I used to change my oil at 2-2.5K with Castrol 20W-50 and more than once barely liquid diarrhea blew and chugged out...and when I had to rebuild at relatively low miles, the engine was full of kr@p, now I know was sludge and THICK nasty deposits.

Yes I WAS young and stupid, because after rebuilds, guess what I put back in? Yep Castrol 20W-50....because I was so convinced that it was the "best", that any other oil would do worse. I even wonder why you would post such information, the facts are the facts, the oil had it's problems. Have you not heard of black death?

Too bad no UOA back then for us consumers.

I'm pretty sour on Castrol. Then when they pulled the Syntec charade, and brought other companies, including Amsoil down that sinkhole - I swore the product off for life. This whole German syntec thing hasn't made it to WA state, but we'll see.

[ September 01, 2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[Flimflam]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
Huh?

No one responded to you so I'll take a crack at old Castrol 20W-50 dino. Crap oil. Wouldn't hardly last 3000 miles in a hot burning car, yet it was advertised beyond heavily, as protecting any engine, in any conditions, any time. I mean this oil was thrust down our throats - well let me tell you I'm not a youngin' anymore and I used to change my oil at 2-2.5K with Castrol 20W-50 and more than once barely liquid diarrhea blew and chugged out...and when I had to rebuild at relatively low miles, the engine was full of kr@p, now I know was sludge and THICK nasty deposits.

......... Have you not heard of black death?

Too bad no UOA back then for us consumers.

I'm pretty sour on Castrol. Then when they pulled the Syntec charade, and brought other companies, including Amsoil down that sinkhole - I swore the product off for life. This whole German syntec thing hasn't made it to WA state, but we'll see.

---

Pablo, I like your candid, honest style. I respect your opinion. I have my own opinion, too. I will reply to your claims with True Cases.

True Case #1. Honda 4-Stroke OHC 4-cylinder motorcycle engines. Circa 1977. Air-cooled no less. Run on Castrol GTX 20w-50. Sometimes Castrol HD-30. Raced all day long in brutal heat, at 10,000 rpm and then some. Upon teardown: No Deposits. Engines clean as a whistle. One of them still runs today, given to a close friend, and it has never had its valve cover off. So, just imagine: 26 years and still clean as a whistle, no funny noises from valve train or any other moving parts.

True Case #2. Ford Thunderbird 1986 model. Catastropic cooling system failure on highway with no shoulder. October 1998. Car was run completely dry of coolant while looking for a place to turn off the highway. Every alarm in car screaming blue murder. Smoking like a Mutha from every Orifice. Looked like a g*d d*mned Hiroshima on wheels. Eventually, found a turn-off point. The heat was so intense, all the motor oil had volatized off, boiled off. Walked to a gas station, bought 5 Quarts and all that oil barely made it to 1/3 of the dipstick. Again, on checking the engine next day, nothing amiss. No deposits, nothing. The oil? Castrol GTX 10w-40. Car was sold off in December 2000. Never needed a service. Never missed a tick.

True Case #3. 1992. Small Japanese import subcompact. Forgot oil change. Oil stayed in for 9,000 miles. A dino oil, no less. When changed out eventually, everything was normal. No "diarrhea chuggin' out." Oil: Cas GTX 20w-50.


Pablo, I do not know why you have a Beef with Castrol. Maybe it is the 1965 version of Castrol that you hate. But in 1965, everything sucked, too. You name it: Brand "P," Brand "Q,"they all sucked and yes, "Black Death" was a big problem in the Old Days, but what the **** , every oil made had this B.D. problem. But believe me, today's SL spec castrol GTX will leave your engine clean.

 

[Virtuoso]

Perhaps Castrol used to be crap. Perhaps it does shear down a bit (I change every 3k anyway). But I've seen good UOA's, and the inside of my engine's valve covers (clean), so I'm going to keep using brand C..

 

[Pablo]

FF- I used Castrol in the early to mid 1970's. First engine it killed was a 1971 Datsun 510 (L16) in 1974. Then a '74 Mercury Cougar (302 Ford) in 1976. Then my friend's Dad's BMW 2002 in about 75 or 76.... each car showed unusual piston wear and massive oil passage blockage. I have a certain feeling from the time that it wasn't the fault of the oil - but now I know better!

All these cars had regular oil changes with the 20W-50 and all had black tar. I have no doubt the state the art for motor oil in early 1970's was none too good. Maybe Castrol came out with a lousy formula...I do know even now 20W-50 dino is quite a spread, so what they did in the early 70's is ancient history mystery

I am sure Castrol now is much better, but there are so many better choices, I just don't bother.

I guess I can thank Castrol for planting the seed of oil addiction in my brain.

[ September 01, 2003, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[oilcanboyd]

when i was going to college i used to change my oil every 5000 to 10,000 miles depending on how much money i had and if i felt like changing it. i was using castrol 20w-50 and then superflo 20w-50 in my 1994 1.6L sohc civic.

 

[pscholte]

You know, guys, I must say that the two dino oils with the most loyal followings (I'm sure there is an argument for QS in there)--Pennzoil and Castrol--also seem to be the two coming up most often in the "sludged up my engine" context. Pablo, I believe every word you are telling us but I just find my earlier comment to represent an interesting "coincidence."

Either due to their widespread use or reputation there is a greater chance you will run across someone who has had problems with them OR there will be those who want to destroy their reputations. From the shenanigans we hear about or suspect in some segments of the oil business, I would not put it past someone in company X to start something negative about company Y.

 

[Flimflam]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pscholte:
You know, guys, I must say that the two dino oils with the most loyal followings (I'm sure there is an argument for QS in there)--Pennzoil and Castrol--also seem to be the two coming up most often in the "sludged up my engine" context. Pablo, I believe every word you are telling us but I just find my earlier comment to represent an interesting "coincidence."

Either due to their widespread use or reputation there is a greater chance you will run across someone who has had problems with them OR there will be those who want to destroy their reputations. From the shenanigans we hear about or suspect in some segments of the oil business, I would not put it past someone in company X to start something negative about company Y.

---

Pscholte, every decade or 3, the automobile industry will take a great leap forward in technology.....particularly in the engines. Most often, they leap without informing the motor oil manufacturers. So, there is an information gap and a technology gap, in which the oil manufacturers are momentarily left behind. This is what happened in the 1970's, when "lean burn," "high revving" engines became popular.

Whenever this techno gap phenomenon happens, G*d help the poor oil manufacturer who happens to be in the most prominent position at that moment. Because the new engines are going to convert the techno-laggard oil into Black Death, and we will never hear the end of it from disgruntled motorists, not even 35, not even 50 years down the road!!!!!!

 

[Pablo]

Just to be clear again - I am talking about 1974, not 1994. I started car maintaining in 1972.....dang....I know this problem didn't follow Castrol into the 1990's.

I also think there is more to this than high use coincidence, the other colollary is something like; where there's smoke a fire exists....all these "cases" are not just BS. Not made up to hack a brand down - remember I WAS a Castrol guy, true to the core. There was something to this.

Thanks for believing me, guys. I wish I had photos of the tar, it was thick and nasty. Seems to me Castrol figured it our right away. I did run Castrol in the late 70's and early 80's without problems.

Funny you mention Pennzoil - my dad is a Pennz guy since back in prehistory and he never had any sludge issues! Well - my mom does have a Saturn, suppose I'll be talking to them about AutoRx soon....

[ September 01, 2003, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[Flimflam]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
Just to be clear again - I am talking about 1974, not 1994. I started car maintaining in 1972.....dang....I know this problem didn't follow Castrol into the 1990's.

I also think there is more to this than high use coincidence, the other colollary is something like; where there's smoke a fire exists....all these "cases" are not just BS. Not made up to hack a brand down - remember I WAS a Castrol guy, true to the core. There was something to this.

Thanks for believing me, guys. I wish I had photos of the tar, it was thick and nasty. Seems to me Castrol figured it our right away. I did run Castrol in the late 70's and early 80's without problems.

Funny you mention Pennzoil - my dad is a Pennz guy since back in prehistory and he never had any sludge issues! Well - my mom does have a Saturn, suppose I'll be talking to them about AutoRx soon....

---

Pablo, every Oil got skeletons in its cupboard, man. I believe your story that Brand "C" in 1970 did mess some engines up with Black Death. But then, so did not every oil at one point or another.

You say Brand "C" messed you up. But buddy, I have stories from times long past, too. The popular oil that 4 out of 5 people use, extoll, and promote? You know which one I am talking about, let us just call it Brand "M"? Well, in 1983-1985, I saw engines chewed up to bits....I mean camshaft and cam follower all eaten up.....a total self-destructo job. That was all caused by Brand "M"....and I will give you a hint....it has a numeric somewhere in its name. I did not look at the pistons and crankshaft, no need to, because it was evident that the engines were Toast. To this date, all the people who saw those runied engines will not touch Brand "M" synthetic. Although they will, in a pinch, use Brand "M" mineral.

So, everybody makes a mistake at some point. But no big deal. Life goes on.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I have to say that I too am PI$$ed at the Syntec bait and switch. WIth this said I too grew up with Castrol 20W50 and a Fram filter changed every 1800-2500 miles in the warm months and 10W30 in the cold months. This was down with clock work fanaticism until I made the switch to synthetic. My Dad continued this for a long time until I convinced him to switch. We never had any sludge or deposit issues. THe most we ever needed to clean an oil pan out was a shop rage. THeir was some slight varnish on the rocker arms and in the nook and cranys of the head. We have never blown in engine.

I do belive that their are much better oils on the market. I do not trust Castrol to be honest and to keep bringing the SLx in to the U.S.A.! I do plan on trying some if it ever makes it my way. I just do not trust Castrol after the syntec incident!!

 

[pscholte]

JB,

I don't want to venture off the original subject but I wish some of you guys lived closer because I would be more than willing to share from my stash. I get so frustrated when I hear you all say you can't find it. For that, I hold Castrol responsible. I just don't understand the Autozone only (in the US) connection...maybe they are being rewarded for at least trying to sell the original 0W30.

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Pscholte.....I think you may be close. Autozone is the only place I have found the 0w30 syntec period, German or U.S. made.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
I wish to say that Castrol make many very good products. The following story may amuse some and cause others to reflect on their use too

When I was doing my Auto Engineering training with BMC in NZ in the 1950s & early 1960s I noticed that certain engine models in new cars were prone to sludging. And very good at making "white soup" under their valve covers. The internal hard deposits too had to be seen to be believed.
We had Winter temps of -8C to Summer temps of +25C.
Oil and filter changes were done at either 1000 or 1500 miles according to engine type
The same occured in England as I was to find out
later

As a budding young trainee Engineer I went looking for the reasons. And while these engines did not "breath" very well by design, the common denominator was the Castrol oil. The same engines on certain other oils were much cleaner. At this time Castrol was the premium oil make - at least in the British Colonies - acclaimed for its racing success. Burmah was at its peak!!!

We used only Castrolite ( 20w-30 ) and Castrol XL ( 20w-40 ). Castrol XXL a 30-50, was only used in older engines. Deposits were also far less with Castrolite than the others

In 1959 I trialed an early pre-export production Morris Mini and these were set up for Castrol 20w-50 - the only oil permitted. And still the soft deposits appeared!

I was able to see many of these engines in a similar environment in Denmark, and on Mobil or Caltex oils, and they were a different kettle of fish - little or no soft deposits

I believed at the time these Castrol oils to be wanting - now in hindsight perhaps I was correct

Later in the mid to late 1970s I revisited the Castrol issue again by using Castrol R 10w-50 synthetic in both light Japanese diesels ( Isuzu & Kubota ) and in petrol engines. With great success. And, by carrying out many UOAs, proved the oil to be very durable out to and beyond 3000 hours.

It also became my oil of choice in my own and Company cars for the next 18 years.

In the 1990s I used Castrol RX Super 15w-40 in my own heavy trucks with great success. I also tested new pre-release oil formulations ( including semi-synthetics*** for over 500000kms ) for Castrol. Many UOAs were done in the process.
Their Australian formulated semi-synthetic **** Enduro LD 15w-40 heavy diesel oil for American diesel engines was an excellent product. With a great reputation too

I believe that Castrol have made some excellent products over the years and for very long periods of time. I also think they have had their moments with formulations that were wanting!

The concern I have now is that BP "own the bank book" and have trashed thousands of Castrol employees since the takeover. The brand name has been devalued - the focus lost. I hope their products haven't been.

At least they still make the very best synthetic ATF and synthetic gear oils!!

It does seem strange that they appear to have withdrawn their SLX 0w-30 here in Australia and substituted the Castrol R 5w-30 in its place

Perhaps we should ask BP to find out if it competes with their product!!!

Regards
Doug Hillary

 

[sprintman]

Doug I'd say Castrol GTX 1, 2, and 3 must be the biggest selling oil here in Oz, you agree? As for BP the recent Timken testing Ron has done showed Visco 3000 to be about the best all round dino bar exotics like Lubrication Engineers Ultra 8800. Visco 5000 PAO 5W40 the best all round performer too and very cheap by any standard. BP are very underestimated re product but they utilise 'stealth marketing' which isn't a good idea in a tough market IMO.

 

[pscholte]

sprintman,

I have had high regard for BP products but I am wondering why BP oils are pretty scarce on the Mercedes approval list and why the best Visco 5000 could do was Mercedes 229.1 and that there are NO 229.3 or 229.5 approved BP oils. (This may have changed since the list I have came out.)

 

[sprintman]

Just called BP tech and still SJ version here and MB 229.1. SL version due around xmas. Great oil at a bargain price IMO.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
yes sprintman - the GTX range of Castrol oils are extremely popular here. And regularly marketed on "specials" they hit the right spot!

I used BP Visco-Static many years ago. That dates me I'm sure. It had a great reputation.
I do not know of any fleet owners who use BP oils

BP have the modern "Car-Truck Stop" market sewn up here in OZ

I am assured that BP-Castrol "...will not allow any cross pollination of their products..."

Thats about the same as not using a Ruski commuter craft to get to the space station!

Well, I suppose its better than marketing an old Ruski sub to do tourist trips on the Great Barrier Reef

Regards

 

[sprintman]

Doug

Roosians just lost another sub even after it was decomissioned and another nine died. Still at least they think laterally. During the space race NASA spent US$1 mil developing a pen to work in zero gravity. CCCP had little money so they came up with a novel idea


A pencil!!

 

[Shannow]

Sprintman,
the BP tech I was talking to (while I was complaining about 5 week delivery for and "off the shelf" order of hydraulic oil) stated that the Visco 5000 was hydrocracked, but every bit as good as any synthetic.

The FF&R test agreed, as does Ron's Timken, apparently.