Considering Scheaffer 0w40 in 2.0 eco boost.

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I’m looking into using this oil in my next service this week. Currently I have Mag1 5w30 full synthetic in it with a Fram ultra filter. I sample randomly to see how things are looking and the engine seems to be doing good. My wear metals are in range and the car runs great. My only concern is that the oil shears or fuel dilutes to 8.6 in only 2,500 miles. It’s not really hurting anything according to the wear metals but it bothers me. I have some 0w40 SN rated oil from a project left and that’s what the owners manual calls for (SN not 0w40). Do you think it’s worth trying or leave it alone? I attached the PDS from the 0w40.
 

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I always thought 5w30 or 0w40 in this case would have different zinc contents regardless of both being SN because both oils have different requirements to fall within the SN specs. Best example being Castrol 5w30 A3/B4 which I believe is SL while their other plain Jane US Castrol offerings are either SN or SN+.

Assuming zinc content and catalytic converter compatibility is your concern, you are fine as they are used in vehicles with cats.

My concern would be the calcium content with a DI engine.
 
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1450 CA on the the Redline Performance Euro AND Group 5 quenches LSPI over and above the other additives that reduce LSPI. So win win. Very low Ash and a 6 NOACH. I run around with a glowing red turbo with high boost and I have good low wear #s.
 
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1450 CA on the the Redline Performance Euro AND Group 5 quenches LSPI over and above the other additives that reduce LSPI. So win win. Very low Ash and a 6 NOACH. I run around with a glowing red turbo with high boost and I have good low wear #s.

FYI, a glowing red turbo will usually end up cracking or failing in a short period of time so I'm really doubtful 🧐
 

mpgo4th

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I always thought 5w30 or 0w40 in this case would have different zinc contents regardless of both being SN because both oils have different requirements to fall within the SN specs. Best example being Castrol 5w30 A3/B4 which I believe is SL while their other plain Jane US Castrol offerings are either SN or SN+.

Assuming zinc content and catalytic converter compatibility is your concern, you are fine as they are used in vehicles with cats.

My concern would be the calcium content with a DI
Why buy a group 3/small 4 when you can have a group 4/ 5 for the same money with better specs. Both are $12.99 US.


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The scheaffer full synthetic is $8.30 a quart wholesale.
 
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The scheaffer full synthetic is $8.30 a quart wholesale.
Group 3 full synthetic, at a good price.

I use their grease but they bragged up their compressor oil to me and almost took out a $20,000 air compressor because I listened to their tech dept. Thank God for my checks, as I caught a catastrophe in the making. This by no means correlates to motor oil by the way. Just a rotary screw air compressor that is hard on oil with their compressor oil. I could be wrong , but after that catastrophe, I only look at Scheaffers as a Group 3 company , even IF the have a high PAO, which they said their compressor oil was and my compressor gelled is oil in 70 hr or 600 hours, I would have to look at my paper work to get the correct figure.
 

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1450 CA on the the Redline Performance Euro AND Group 5 quenches LSPI over and above the other additives that reduce LSPI. So win win. Very low Ash and a 6 NOACH. I run around with a glowing red turbo with high boost and I have good low wear #s.
Got any documentation from a reputable source that shows ester content reduces LSPI? We know that ZDDP (phosphorous, primarily) is an LSPI quencher, based on Infineum's testing, and reducing calcium is also effective, replacing it with magnesium. The rest of this post reads like a marketing ad for Redline, which has no OEM approvals, or even the basic API approval that Ford requires for this application, which may be important if the vehicle is still under warranty.

Also, the Redline oils are NOT primarily ester-based, which would have serious issues with seal swell. They are majority PAO, with some ester content to balance it out. Does it have more ester content than your typical Joe Average oil? Yes, but the hype tends to really out-run reality when their oils get brought up.
 
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Got any documentation from a reputable source that shows ester content reduces LSPI? We know that ZDDP (phosphorous, primarily) is an LSPI quencher, based on Infineum's testing, and reducing calcium is also effective, replacing it with magnesium. The rest of this post reads like a marketing ad for Redline, which has no OEM approvals, or even the basic API approval that Ford requires for this application, which may be important if the vehicle is still under warranty.

Also, the Redline oils are NOT primarily ester-based, which would have serious issues with seal swell. They are majority PAO, with some ester content to balance it out. Does it have more ester content than your typical Joe Average oil? Yes, but the hype tends to really out-run reality when their oils get brought up.
Yea, some white paper from a very reputable source that you can find, if YOU want to. It's been posted on this site before ( I think I did just for YOU at one point) to make it easier for you.

Who's hyping it, who is discounting it?

I know they are not all Ester based as you would not have seals left if it was. All I said I use it since I run a small red glowing turbo so I want some Ester to take the heat. I don't trust PAO in a extra high heat scenario as I learned first hand from work. EVEN Summits PAO that has even more Ester then the normal OEM Altlas Copco oil PAO oil, I would varnish up. I even went up against their engineers because they thought I was nuts saying their PAO oil was not up to THEIR OWN use case. I had all my documentation from Polaris Labs tests $ 800 worth of testing brought forward and after that they did not say a word. I just got a wink from the the states service manager saying he was on the emails and he said "good job" with a wink. Virgin oxidation levels are close with my Redline and my Summit group 5 compressor oil, so correlate it as you may. I just brought up he has a choice of Redline since looking up Schaefers I found a price of $12.99 and you came back with your nerve was hit.

Just saying Scheafer's is full of BS marketing, as I was a dumbars for believing their tech dept, as the choice to use their oil almost took out my compressor at work. I opened up to do UOA and gel chunks were all floating on top. A group 3 oil where the compressor kills OEM PAO oil into starting to varnish at 600 hour on their 8,000 hour oil. Will a smoking high lower particulate count, and failed every varnish test. Switch to Summit Ultima Group 5 oil (12,000 hour speced oil) zero varnish, but I still dump at 8,000-9,000 as I like to keep clean air compressors. He does have options I guess I like having a 6 NOACK oil, low CA and very low Ash and a Group 5 to take my turbo's red hot heat. Maybe if we call that oil Yellowmark Oil you won't have a nerve hit.


.
 
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FYI, a glowing red turbo will usually end up cracking or failing in a short period of time so I'm really doubtful 🧐
At night you see red after a run, I am not the only one running a small Hyundai turbo pushed with high boost and many still have their original turbos. I am not color blind.
 

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Yea, some white paper from a very reputable source that you can find, if YOU want to. It's been posted on this site before ( I think I did just for YOU at one point) to make it easier for you.
I always make it a point to source my claims with links or images. You could learn from that approach instead of being snarky.

That said, I located the thread, I think your memory is off:

I posted this table from STLE in the thread, you'll note the slight increase of LSPI events with the addition of esters:
1645993278482.png

This is because, per the following quotes:
STLE said:
The ability of a base oil to act as a solvent (i.e. solvency) may be a contributing factor in increasing the frequency of LSPI events during operation of a direct fuel-injected engine. Base oil solvency may be measured as the ability of un-additized base oil to act as a solvent for polar constituents. In general, base oil solvency decreases as the base oil group moves from Group Ito Group IV (PAO). That is, solvency of base oil may be ranked as follows for oil of a given kinematic viscosity: Group I>Group II>Group II>Group IV. Base oil solvency also decreases as the viscosity increases within a base oil group; base oil of low viscosity tends to have better solvency than similar base oil of higher viscosity. Base oil solvency may be measured by aniline point (ASTM D611).
STLE said:
Ester base fluids, which are characterized as Group V oils, have high levels of solvency as a result of their polar nature. Addition of low levels (typically less than 10 wt %) of ester to a lubricating composition may significantly increase the resulting solvency of the base oil mixture. Esters may be broadly grouped into two categories: synthetic and natural. An ester base fluid would have a kinematic viscosity at 100° C. suitable for use in an engine oil lubricant, such as between 2 cSt and 30 cSt, or from 3 cSt to 20 cSt, or even from 4 cSt to 12 cSt.
Note you never provided a source in that thread for your statement, I'm the one who posted the above material. You also never responded to that material. So, you were saying? :whistle:

Back to your post though:
Who's hyping it, who is discounting it?
Clearly, you are hyping. I don't think anybody is discounting, simply injecting some reality into the marketing-heavy spin being pushed by yourself.
I know they are not all Ester based as you would not have seals left if it was. All I said I use it since I run a small red glowing turbo so I want some Ester to take the heat. I don't trust PAO in a extra high heat scenario as I learned first hand from work. EVEN Summits PAO that has even more Ester then the normal OEM Altlas Copco oil PAO oil, I would varnish up. I even went up against their engineers because they thought I was nuts saying their PAO oil was not up to THEIR OWN use case. I had all my documentation from Polaris Labs tests $ 800 worth of testing brought forward and after that they did not say a word. I just got a wink from the the states service manager saying he was on the emails and he said "good job" with a wink. Virgin oxidation levels are close with my Redline and my Summit group 5 compressor oil, so correlate it as you may. I just brought up he has a choice of Redline since looking up Schaefers I found a price of $12.99 and you came back with your nerve was hit.
Yet you chose to focus on the "Group V!" in your statement, and calling out your own take on its abilities, rather than indicating that the oil was primarily Group IV based with some Group V content. 🤷‍♂️

There are various grades, and viscosities, of PAO, just saying PAO is being just as vague as proudly proclaiming "Group V!" with liberal interpretation being left up the individual reading it. Given that the majority of the Redline base oil blend is PAO, how do you propose that the POE is doing the heavy lifting on "taking the heat"? It's much more likely that, given that their products tend to be heavier for the grade, that they are using a heavier PAO base.

You didn't hit a nerve, I'm just not a fan of somebody sounding like an infomercial promoting a product, and making claims without sourcing them, which is common courtesy.
Just saying Scheafer's is full of BS marketing, as I was a dumbars for believing their tech dept, as the choice to use their oil almost took out my compressor at work. I opened up to do UOA and gel chunks were all floating on top. A group 3 oil where the compressor kills OEM PAO oil into starting to varnish at 600 hour on their 8,000 hour oil. Will a smoking high lower particulate count, and failed every varnish test. Switch to Summit Ultima Group 5 oil (12,000 hour speced oil) zero varnish, but I still dump at 8,000-9,000 as I like to keep clean air compressors. He does have options I guess I like having a 6 NOACK oil, low CA and very low Ash and a Group 5 to take my turbo's red hot heat. Maybe if we call that oil Yellowmark Oil you won't have a nerve hit.

Not sure what any of that rant has to do with the OP's vehicle, which isn't a compressor? Your inclination to bloviate when triggered is impressive however!

I'm not defending Shaeffer, I don't use their products, but I also don't see what relevance their product's lack of performance in a compressor has with this thread.

If you've got more to add, preferably on-topic, I'll gladly hear it.
 
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I did hit a nerve, I was then an infomercial when I was using Mobil 1 ESP and one when I was using Amsoil and commented on them too. This site is full of opinions on non oil engineers. Even the the people in the oil sector have had pissing fights. You CLEARLY don't care for Redline because what no certs? We get that.

Oh yea, I don't have fuel dilution with RL with an OEM and stage 1 tune. I do with any other oil I have used. A stage 2 tune, nope, nothing will stop fuel dilution with the need of high fuel rates for that style tune. I could care less if you don't believe that. I see what I see. Like I said even before I posted anything I was questioning what I saw and even PMed Molakula to ask him WTF? and asked to explain this. He said that the Esters could be sealing better because of less oil being washed off the cylinder walls from the injectors. Fan boy of Redline no, do I like it because everything seems to work and test out better then any other oil I have used yes. And I have used a lot of different top end oils. In fact a Hyundai engine builder with 500 hp 1.6T engines and he also is racer uses Motul with ester, I don't think it is the 300V and he says that is how he is getting longer life out of his and is clients and big turbo conversions and over pushed tiny Hyundai turbos, where other oils fail. He said people have had the same luck with Redline performance oil. So I took his advice. So I went the Redline route as it has a higher Ester in it too, but of course not enough for you to justife it's use case.


Oh and that was not the white paper I read, I think it was another one. I will have to look at the thread you linked, I don't have time I am install a large vinyl floor right now.
 
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I did hit a nerve, I was then an infomercial when I was using Mobil 1 ESP and one when I was using Amsoil and commented on them too. This site is full of opinions on non oil engineers. Even the the people in the oil sector have had pissing fights. You CLEARLY don't care for Redline because what no certs? We get that.
If it makes you feel better about yourself thinking you hit a nerve, by all means carry on, but I can assure you that you didn't.

Yes, this site is certainly full of opinions by non-tribologists, present company included. The issue is when it comes down to poor takes or improper interpretations of material and a lack of sourcing for others to properly vet. This is why I took issue with your ester statement, which I notice you didn't bring back up in this reply, just like you didn't address it in the thread I linked. The problem will be when you yet again use that statement in a future thread, impervious to the criticism levied against it in previous ones.

I have no issue with Redline. I had a decent stash of their 5w-30 at one point and ran it in two of our vehicles. I do however take issue with it being promoted for applications that stipulate approvals, particularly when those applications are still under warranty. I don't think you "get" much of anything with respect to my position, because it's far less work for you to compartmentalize me and what I say and dismiss it out of hand rather than partaking in meaningful and productive debate which may take you outside of your comfort zone.
Oh yea, I don't have fuel dilution with RL with an OEM and stage 1 tune. I do with any other oil I have used. A stage 2 tune, nope, nothing will stop fuel dilution with the need of high fuel rates for that style tune. I could care less if you don't believe that. I see what I see. Like I said even before I posted anything I was questioning what I saw and even PMed Molakula to ask him WTF? and asked to explain this. He said that the Esters could be sealing better because of less oil being washed off the cylinder walls from the injectors.
Did you ever get the UOA done to confirm all this or are you still just inferring this from oil level? In that thread, you had promised to confirm with actual analysis.
Fan boy of Redline no, do I like it because everything seems to work and test out better then any other oil I have used yes. And I have used a lot of different top end oils. In fact a Hyundai engine builder and racer uses Motul with ester, not the 300V and he says that is how he is getting longer life out of his and is clients and big turbo conversions and over pushed tiny Hyundai turbos, where other oils fail. He said people have had the same luck with Redline performance oil. So I took his advice. So I went the Redline route as it has a higher Ester in it too, but of course not enough for you to justife it's use case.
I like seeing actual data, like tear-downs and trended analysis, not anecdotes about oil level implying something that may or may not be taking place, or completely unrelated detours about pieces of equipment that aren't relevant to the application at hand. That may not jive with the way you like to do things, or how you like to pitch in threads like these, but that's of no consequence to me. I've made clear why I took issue with your sales pitch in this thread, you've made clear you don't actually want to discuss that aspect of it, so where do we go from here?
 
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I believe that calcium level is on the higher side to be LSPI "friendly". It seems that ~1300 and below falls into the LSPI "friendly" range. Though in all honesty I don't know if Ford EcoBoost engines really suffer from LSPI :unsure:.
Not really from my experiences. Many people run xW-40 in the 3.5, 2.7 and 2.0 without any issues.
 
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