Considering change from M1 - seeking opinion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
2,230
Location
Toronto-ish, Canada
Some of you may have seen my post in the additive forum, but for background:

I am an engineer and research pretty much everything to death. I have a 1998 BMW 528i sport manual with around 114,000km (70k mi) on it. Most of its miles are interstate-equivalent 130kph (3k RPM) trips but it also sees it's share of short in-town errands and shopping. It is VERY well maintained overall, lightly modified, sees some high RPM work and isn't babied. It is driven year round, and we see very cold (-20 to -30C sometimes) to hot (35C) temperatures.

It has one previous owner who was a personal friend of an indie shop I used to use and had 5000km OCIs with Pennzoil synth 5w50 w/ Penzane. Since 2001 and 50,000km (30k mi) I have been using a 5000-6500km OCI with Mobil1 0W40. No oil topups are required in 6000km and there is no detectable oil loss on the goofy BMW dipstick. My car is a hobby and it is very well taken care of. As with some others here, I seek perfection as much as possible while weighing against the age and mileage of the vehicle. I drive around 12,000km per year, so my OCI has me changing the oil in the spring and summer. Other fluids are every 2 years, I try to do brake fluid every year.

Many will tell me that my OCI is too short. My 6000km oil is noticeably dark and considerably opaque. A 1992 Porsche I had previously had 6000km oil (M1 15W50) that looked almost like new. Right now I'm comfortable with my OCI in this car to keep things clean. I've never done UOA before. I am interested, but Canadian options for the "fleet of one" seem harder to come by.

I've elected to begin an auto-rx cycle soon to make sure the rings are clean and to try to clean up some minor orange/brown deposits (varnish?) visible through the filler that were there when I got the car. I will use Esso XD3 15w40 HDEO dino for the clean and rinse cycles and need to finish before next fall so I can return to synthetic for winter.

I am considering changing from M1 0W40 for the following reasons:

  • I have read that 0W40 shears down to 30 weight. I'd really prefer a 40. Old school with all the 'thin' guys running around? Maybe. Something like 5w40 might have less VII to shear?
  • I expect my motor oil to provide excellent protection, keep things clean, and run smooth and quiet. I've been getting some top end noise and lack of smoothness in all of the cars I've run M1 in. Some here have suggested in other threads that 'anything but M1' can make things quieter. Quiet mechanical parts are generally happier than noisy ones even if UOA indicates no wear. I'd like to try something else and see if smoothness returns.
  • I've developed a feeling that M1 isn't what it used to be. While still being excellent, they are developing for a price point that will sell in Wal-Mart, not necessarily to be the best oil.

Right now I am considering:

  • Redline 5w40 in summer, maybe 5w30 in winter, based on Cst comparisons with M1 0W40.
  • M1 T&S 5W40 but specs are hard to find and I haven't seen it in Canada anywhere (yet). Suggestions?
  • Esso XD3 0W40 - seems to have a good reputation and I believe Walmart has it
  • Amsoil somethingorother - haven't chosen a grade, but a lot of people swear by it

If after Auto-RX and the possible addition of LC20 in future changes I see cleaner used oil, I'll think about extending my OCI. I'm interested in any discussion or opinions, except maybe that I change my oil too much
wink.gif


Craig.
 
I say keep using M1.

Are you using the weight specified by BMW?

I would increase the OCI to atleast an equivilant of 6,000 miles, or every 6 months.

Although I have seen some horrific sludged up BMW engines, I suspect your's is clean as a whistle with the short OCI's. BMW has had a 15k mile OCI for several years and I think that is the fault behind the sludge.
 
Great choices IMO for your engine:
1. Esso XD3 0W-40
2. Lubromoly 0W-40 or 5W-40
3. Pentosin 5W-40
4. Amsoil 5W-40 (old version was great; new one likely is too)
5. Maybe GC (its lower viscosity than others here may cause some extra oil consumption but then again it may not; it did in my VW 1.8T engine)

Notes:
1. Above list is not exhaustive.
2. M1 T&SUV name has been dropped. M1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel is its replacement but few have spotted it anywhere.
 
quote:

Originally posted by thooks:
I say keep using M1.

Are you using the weight specified by BMW?



There's a range of valid viscosities in the manual. The dealer would use their brand (Castrol I believe) 5W30 if I let them have their way. It seems to be proven to sludge if used past 6000-7000km. M1 0W40 is specifically BMW LL-1 (long life) rated and M1 5W30 is also "approved" but without LL-1.


I would increase the OCI to atleast an equivilant of 6,000 miles, or every 6 months.



That's what I'm at, 6 months.


Although I have seen some horrific sludged up BMW engines, I suspect your's is clean as a whistle with the short OCI's. BMW has had a 15k mile OCI for several years and I think that is the fault behind the sludge.


Yes, their long OCIs and crappy dealer oil are at fault. This is oft-discussed in E39 forums
thumbsdown.gif
Mine's probably not whistle-clean, but that's what I'm shooting for.


Thanks for replying.
 
For starters, I would key off what the owner's manual and or tech data such as shop manuals recommend for YOUR BMW. I am swagging 0w40 is TAILOR made for the BMW!?

So given the standards recommended or required, I am SWAGGING the Mobil One T & S 5w40 aka Delvac 5w40 will meet those standards IF your heart is set on changing.

I use it in a VW Jetta TDI with 25,000 mile OCI's!!!! I have to tell you it is one ROBUST oil: IF it meets your viscosity requirements and oil standards !!!!! I would use 0w40 if 5w40 were NOT available.

So I do not necessarily thing that Mobil One is THE best. I think those accolades belong to stuff like Redline, Amsoil, etc. However for OTC (available almost ANYWHERE) and the price, I would and do stay with it!!! (765,000 miles and progressing products: 5w30, 5w40, 0w20 ?)
 
I've heard of that M1 0W-40 turning black when people run it on the track. I think it is more of a multi-season/long life oil than a performance oil. It's time for a switch. Also, I think that LC will remove the varnish.
 
quote:

Originally posted by AndyH:
Esso XD3 0W-40 in the summer, Esso XD3 0W-30 (a "thick) Xw-30, similar to GC) in the winter. Wish these two oils were available down here in the U.S.
patriot.gif
cheers.gif
canada.gif


Some XD3 threads I've searched out indicated significant shearing of XD3 0W40 and speculated the XD3 0W30 would stay in grade better. Any comments?

I notice that XD3 has no boron or moly while I believe that Redline has plenty of moly. Comments?

Craig.
 
I have a BMW M Roadster that I run Mobil 1 10-30 in in the SF area. I have changed at 5,000 miles or so for the past five years and I had it apart a bit for mods last week. The engine is as clean as I would expect it is possible to be and my oil tests are great.
I run the 10-30 as it covers BMW's specs for all the weather I run in and the oil is timed out each year.
I don't think I'm ready to kick Mobil 1 out of bed.
 
After a bit of research on oils, I’m pretty keen on these Group III hydrocracked synthetics.

Petro-canada has a HDEO Duron 5w-40 Synthetic.

When I phoned a local bulk dealer here in Alberta, I was quoted $22.49 - for 4liters jugs -- so the price is right. There is a bulk dealer locator on PC’s site on that link.
 
Craig, again my voice goes out to any A3-rated over-the-counter-walmart-available synthetic with LC for 10-15k (BMW) intervals. This is what I do in all 3 of my current BMW's. One has 320k km! Castrol Syntec 5-40 or 5-50 is an excellent choice.
 
For those who are curious what the manual states exactly, I looked at a MY2000 manual which states a couple of things, some funny:

1. API SH or greater

2. Use only "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil"

3. Approved oils are in SAE classes 5W30 and SAE 5W40

4. The graphic showing ranges says 0Wx and 5Wx for all temperature ranges, 10Wx for -15C or higher ambient temp. So much for their 5W30 and 5W40 only statement in #3.

So as I said, the manual is pretty vague about a broad range of viscosities. M1 0W40 is BMW LL-01 rated, but that's about long life not necessarily working or cleaning as well as it could.
 
Have you considered either Redline or Castrol Syntec in 10w40? I would think that both would have less VII & be less shear-prone than their 5w40 counterparts.........just free thinking here.....
 
Craig,

I realize you are in the data gathering phase of your research and that opinion and speculation are important and useful. However, as an engineer you are accustomed to dealing with factual data. I recommend you do a UOA on your M1 0W-40 to determine how well it is lubricating and protecting your engine and whether (or how much) it is shearing. These data are essential if you're going to experiment to find the right oil for your BMW.
 
I would use Redline 5W40 year round. Redline is pricy though!!! You might also cosider giveing Esso XD-3 in XW40 a try.
 
BMW manuals have now eliminated #4 altogether. In the `90's they had every viscosity available listed with the appropriate temperature range.

As far as I'm concerned, the key is to use a non-consuming A3-rated oil and step up in viscosity if required to curb consumption. These oil do not require replacement under 7.5k mi. minimum. LC simply helps keep things super-clean for the duration of oil use.
 
I've not seen anyone mention it, so I will suggest the newer kid on the block, Pennzoil Platinum. I had similar experiences with M1 where the car had a certain "notchiness" about the way it ran, and I moved my 2 newer cars to PP and they loved it. I am also running ARX cycles on them right now, but as soon as I am done I'm right back to it due to the smooth and quiet running they both had when using PP. Do a search in the forum and you will find a few that have had similar experiences with M1 and have been pretty pleased with the PP after switching.
 
quote:

Originally posted by jeepman:
I've not seen anyone mention it, so I will suggest the newer kid on the block, Pennzoil Platinum.

Probably not mentioned because the "Euro" formulation 5w-30 & 5w-40 Pennzoil Platinum are rarer then hen's teeth!
 
Esso XD3 0W-40 in the summer, Esso XD3 0W-30 (a "thick) Xw-30, similar to GC) in the winter. Wish these two oils were available down here in the U.S.
patriot.gif
cheers.gif
canada.gif
 
I say try some good ol' German Castrol. Don't use that Brand X1Y2W4Z7=broke down on route66, unless your want your top end sounding like Jeff Beck on a drum roll.
grin.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top